$100 6mx, 77, 9bb stopngo

I dont like this play at all here. With 77 you are probaly at worst a 50/50 why wouldnt you not want it all in preflop? If your plan is to s/g you might get him to fold hands you beat, certainly nothing that beats you.

Agree the opponent has to be pretty poor for it to work in an stt becuase a competent player's range should tighten if there are small stacks left to act, therefore he is probably going to have at least overcards to the flop and know he is priced in to calling what ever you push. Not to mention a bad player's might not understand he is getting odds to call your flop push.

Hands that have the odds to call, but are behind the villain's opening range would be good candidates for an s/g like k10. If you push preflop you will get called by Ax, but perhaps get it to fold on your flop push. Probably 7-8 bb would be an ideal stack size, any more and you can make a case to fold pre, and any less even a bad player will call your flop push with nothing.

Originally posted by jaxtraw
I dont like this play at all here. With 77 you are probaly at worst a 50/50 why wouldnt you not want it all in preflop? If your plan is to s/g you might get him to fold hands you beat, certainly nothing that beats you.

Agree the opponent has to be pretty poor for it to work in an stt becuase a competent player's range should tighten if there are small stacks left to act, therefore he is probably going to have at least overcards to the flop and know he is priced in to calling what ever you push. Not to mention a bad player's might not understand he is getting odds to call your flop push.

Hands that have the odds to call, but are behind the villain's opening range would be good candidates for an s/g like k10. If you push preflop you will get called by Ax, but perhaps get it to fold on your flop push. Probably 7-8 bb would be an ideal stack size, any more and you can make a case to fold pre, and any less even a bad player will call your flop push with nothing.

I generally agree with you, jaxtraw. As I say, i can count my s/g's on the fingers of one hand

Let's take your KT example, assuming 7-8bb. What flops are you pushing? All, inc Axx?). Suppose you are villain, with KQs. Will you call the donk push on all flops? What about Axx or 372r?

thanks

Yes push any flop with k10. The idea of a s/g is you will get mor f/e pushing the flop than preflop.

With your 77 hand, he is more likely (maybe only slightly) to call you preflop than when you push the flop. I am assuming you want to get value out of the 77 not push him out of the pot.

Re: Villain's actions in response to you pushing an A high board, I think random folds a good amount of time when he whifss and there is an ace out there, less so if the flop is rags. As long as you know you will definitely see 5 cards and you opponent might not is the reasoning for pushing any flop.

* I just saw the preflop is 3x, which is a big consideration against s/g

+1 to jax. stop n go with hands that are at the bottom of your range.

you dont want him to fold when u have a hand as strong as 77 for 9bbs.

Originally posted by lessthanthreee
+1 to jax. stop n go with hands that are at the bottom of your range.

you dont want him to fold when u have a hand as strong as 77 for 9bbs.

Yeah, he had 55 here, so somehow I get him to put his $ in with 10% less equity than pre but I agree. S/g just bad here.

Honestly, I rlly can't think of a time when it would be the best line...

Stop go is totally fine here with 22-55 imo. Small pairs, probably hands like KT, QTs as mentioned. I don't hate your play though. Villain doesn't seem to be particularly aggro. He has 15 PFR and if his CO steal % is not that high combined with the 3x preflop and the fact he has u covered, I think your play could be even optimal. I don't see how we smash villain's range here. And it's hard for a fish to fold Ax both pre and postflop. QT/KT/9Ts is a different type of thing though. Maybe 77 will be better to shove pre, but given how opponent is, I don't think this play is so bad at all.