A8s

I don't see much worse hands calling you there. I think this looks like a good spot to c/c for me, all the draws have missed. Maybe he checks back Tx.

Why are you betting the turn?

Do you expect a better hand to fold?

How much worse is calling that won't bluff if you check to them?

If you answer these 3 questions we can then move on to the river.

Originally posted by Boomer2k10
Why are you betting the turn?

Do you expect a better hand to fold?

How much worse is calling that won't bluff if you check to them?

If you answer these 3 questions we can then move on to the river.

my flush draw mandatory turn bet.

no

I dont think theres much that won't bluff ..

OK now next step

1) Why is it a mandatory turn bet because you have a flush draw if you're neither bluffing nor-value betting which you've already admitted to?

2) What is your plan for the river now to avoid turning your hand face up when you brick

3) Can you think of a better line that may serve this hand

Originally posted by Boomer2k10
OK now next step

1) Why is it a mandatory turn bet because you have a flush draw if you're neither bluffing nor-value betting which you've already admitted to?

2) What is your plan for the river now to avoid turning your hand face up when you brick

3) Can you think of a better line that may serve this hand

1. isnt the term called semi bluffing. I still got outs to win the hand even though im not always ahead on the turn.

2. Im blank on this one. But id imagine that bet is the only option to not show my A high fd face up.

3. I wouldn't say better . I seem to always just bet twice and check fold/if i dont hit the 8 ) in this situation. But the only other line i can think of is bet checkturn call river. which makes me like my old standard bet bet/cf line better

I don't mind the turnbet as he was openlimping with a wide range and he is probably a passive fish who is just raising the turn with good toppair hands. I cannot prove this assumption but i don'T see better hands folding but enough worse calling and just a few raising. Q9 J9 QJ, random Ax, worse Flushdraws. I like this turnbet but of course it's not a nobrainer autobet against opponents who ain't likely to be calling again with a naked gutshot and do raise light and bluff the turn if checked to etc.

Then c/c Turn is favourised over betting. But against such a fish i like the bet. And i don't mind betting the River as well against Ax and worse Pairs but riverplay is difficult to solve as he might checking back a Tx and we win against a better hand, he might be bluffing all his gutshots => rivercheck is better. But if he does not bluffing at all and not checking back a better hand but calling enough worse hands => Riverbet is better.

It's really specific information that needs to be enveloped over the time. With no specific reads but the read that he's a fish, i don't mind how this hand was played out.

Originally posted by Avataren

Originally posted by Boomer2k10
OK now next step

1) Why is it a mandatory turn bet because you have a flush draw if you're neither bluffing nor-value betting which you've already admitted to?

2) What is your plan for the river now to avoid turning your hand face up when you brick

3) Can you think of a better line that may serve this hand

1. isnt the term called semi bluffing. I still got outs to win the hand even though im not always ahead on the turn.

2. Im blank on this one. But id imagine that bet is the only option to not show my A high fd face up.

3. I wouldn't say better . I seem to always just bet twice and check fold/if i dont hit the 8 ) in this situation. But the only other line i can think of is bet checkturn call river. which makes me like my old standard bet bet/cf line better

1) It's only a semi-bluff when a better hand will fold. Yes you will have 20-25% equity so you're almost never dominated but you're still behind vs his range so it's almost never a value-bet either.

firsttsuami's point about this guy being a fish who may call twice with a gutshot is valid if you have a really tight read on the guy but as a default I would not be betting this turn for mul;tiple reasons, one of which is that if you bet you have no FDs in your checking range.

Also 58/16 is more Laggy than LP fish so he may even bluff raise you here and now you've put in 2 bets with A-High and may still get blown off your hand on the river, something which won't happen if you check.

The "I have outs" line of thinking is pretty poisonous once you move up because, let's face it, compared to the price you're getting every hand in LHE has outs but that doesn't mean we bluff, or even continue, with them all.

2) If you can't think of a line which won't turn your hand face up, you've messed up somewhere earlier in the hand or, at the very least, your ranges are muddled.

3) Why would Bet/Bet/Check (turn hand face up) feel better than Bet/Check/?. the first line turns your hand face up to anyone remotely observant, the 2nd line protects your range, doesn't turn your hand face up (especailly if you work in the odd cheeky x/r with a hand like AK or KQ) and preserves your implied odds somewhat as well.

Now in position I may like your bet better because you are essentially betting for showdown and especially vs a loose fish who will call a lot with very weak hands then your bet has added value but OOP I think betting twice here just leads to problems

Giving up the initiative in LHE is something that's pretty unnatuaral, especially out of poistion, but done correctly is something which can be very beneficial