I think you misunderstood me. OVB turn with a GS is somewhat okay. If we get to the turn as hero played, I think it's okay, if we started bluffing with 0 EQ, we should continue if we get a GS on the turn.
I don't like start barreling in the first place. Why?
Villain is probably opening a quite wide range from SB. He is checking the flop. What hands does he check with?
He is giving up with hands that totally miss the flop. A8 is ahead of these (notice, that A8-A9 is the nut air here, as he cbets AJ/AQ gutshots), but will fold if we bet (weaker Ax hands, weaker 8x, Qx Jx etc, usually these have 3-6 outs against our A8)
He is check/calling or check/raising, neither of them is good for us, as we have to immediately fold to a check/raise, and if he calls, only a few turn can help us, and villain's range gets a lot stronger after check/called.
What range would you like to play against?
I think it's better to check back, trying to check it down, even call one street with A8 hi if villain bets. If we had some BD equity, that we can get good turns with, and could barrel with a good equity, I'd start betting on the flop.
By betting the flop with A8 you accomplish nothing. You make everything you beat fold, and get called or raised by better hands. You throw away the SD value of your hand. And, basically, if you bet too much marginal SD value hands if villain checks, you end up being unbalanced, and betting too much.
Originally posted by Dawidas888
I like the overbet as well.
To add to the discussion, if villain folds his draws it's good for us. Holy93 assumes that if draws miss villain will check OTR which will rarely be the case as more often than not villain will bluff with them and we will not be able to call. However, those same draws are folding to an overbet.
He won't have draws in his range. He is either cbetting, or check/raising them.
Originally posted by Dawidas888
Another point worth mentioning is that most ABC TAG's (including me, hopefully) fold hands like AT / QQ-JJ or even KJ to an overbet OTT as often enough overbet = nuts so that bluffcatching is not profitable without any reads.
Depending on the pot odds offered, you can calculate how much of your checking range you could calldown with vs overbets.
Originally posted by Dawidas888
Finally, I think overbetting A8 is better than strong draws, because: 1. A9/A8 has a gutshot + an ace is likely live but there are not enough good river cards to include this in river bluffing range. 2. Stronger draws have more good river cards when they can bluff if missed.
Taking all these points into consideration, I think it's better to triple barrel with strong draws and overbet with nuts/weak draws OTT and A8 fits very well into the weak draw range in this particular hand and overbetting should be standard.
Somewhat agree, but I'd still ovb flushdraws and OESD too (aswell as sets) because we want to pressure his Kx Tx hands, and play for a big pot if he still calls.
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