A5s bet bet bet

Hey Mlatasrb,

In a vacuum bet/bet/bet looks fine. There will be better spots to barrel though so it might be interesting to consider what our bluff:value ratio is on the river on context of our entire strategy.

My value range would be KQ, AK, AA (30 combos)
My bluff range would be A5s, A2s, AhQh, AhJh, QhJh, ThJh ( 12 combos).

so it seems that it is better to c/c turn and river with KQ, and some AK combos, to have better bluff/value ratio?
IT seems that I have to bluff A5s here, since I dont get with many bluff hands to the river (unless I barrel with no equity which I dont like).

Hey,

Given our river sizing we probably want about 30% bluffs 70% value, so your ratios look fine. We certainly don't need 50/50 or anything like that.

The reason why I mention it is, I see a lot of these 3barrel spots and often tell guys it's fine, but I don't really ever ask what other hands they are firing. In a pot where value range is narrow I guess it's easily possible that they just bluff far too many river combos, but you are not doing that here.

I see your point, thanks for the explanation. Before, I think I was bluffing turn and river too much just because K is a scare card, so I would fire most of hands which makes it easy call down for my opponent, especially because I could play some value combos as KQ or AK c/c.

Originally posted by mlatasrb
I see your point, thanks for the explanation. Before, I think I was bluffing turn and river too much just because K is a scare card, so I would fire most of hands which makes it easy call down for my opponent, especially because I could play some value combos as KQ or AK c/c.

Yeah could easily be the case.

Generally we have a larger proportion of bluffs on the flop, less on the turn, and less on the river. So river will be our most value-oriented street generally whereas flop will be pretty bluffy.

Generally we have a larger proportion of bluffs on the flop, less on the turn, and less on the river. So river will be our most value-oriented street generally whereas flop will be pretty bluffy.

So, it means that our opponent can float a lot on flop and give up on turn, right? So in order to punish him for floating, I need to check many value combos on turn and raise or call down. I think it works well OOP for me, but I dont like it IP. Or maybe the best, bet turn stronger hands and bluff catch weaker to protect check on turn and bluff on turn in the same time. Probably also on drawy boards I should bet always and bluff catch weaker hands on river and bet stronger on blanks. Is it ok?

When I am IP, I usually check flop with 2nd pair and weak top pair and bluff catch (but it is face up so I dont like it now), so maybe it is better cbet flop, check turn and call river with those hands? Or maybe we dont need to do it, because people float less oop?

Originally posted by mlatasrb
So, it means that our opponent can float a lot on flop and give up on turn, right? So in order to punish him for floating, I need to check many value combos on turn and raise or call down.

Yes, this is correct exploitatively. I was just talking from a balanced theoretical point of view. So the reason we have a check/call range on turn is not to exploit, but simply to defend our checking range (from GTO viewpoint).

Originally posted by mlatasrb
I think it works well OOP for me, but I dont like it IP. Or maybe the best, bet turn stronger hands and bluff catch weaker to protect check on turn and bluff on turn in the same time.

Yeah, so rather than thinking about betting strong hands and bluff-catching weaker ones (which creates unbalance), we probably just want to include some stronger hands in our x/c range that can x/c turn x/c river, and some weaker ones that can x/c turn x/f river. But these same strong hands will also be in our betting range a percentage of the time. In other words there should be hands that are both in our x/c AND betting range.

Originally posted by mlatasrb
When I am IP, I usually check flop with 2nd pair and weak top pair and bluff catch (but it is face up so I dont like it now), so maybe it is better cbet flop, check turn and call river with those hands? Or maybe we dont need to do it, because people float less oop?

Purely depends on the board texture. Some 2nd pairs are way more vulnerable than others. On the drawy textures we can just bet 2 an check back river. On the drier textures we have the option of checking either flop or turn. Sometimes we should call river vs lead, sometimes not. The good players will have a floating range OOP, the majority of players will not.