TTs on BB preflop

What's BTN's opening range?

I think given it's BTN vs blinds-definitely SB's range is gonna be wider than normal. Shoving should be fine imo.

Originally posted by kurrkabin
What's BTN's opening range?

I think given it's BTN vs blinds-definitely SB's range is gonna be wider than normal. Shoving should be fine imo.

Thanks for your answer.
BTN s opening range was 25 from BTN but overall 16

Actually on PKR where the SNG regs dont have HUD I have noticed very small number of regs who 3bet light at all, and this player with a 3bet stat of 5,9 is definitely not very loose 3bettor. Isn't shoving 45+bb with TT a bit spewy for an SNG?

Then with your reads, I guess you can fold tbh. 25% btn open is very tight and on top of that PKR players don't 3bet as much(which is your observation), then I think we can safely put SB on a tigher range and prolly exclude a bit part of his bluffs(which is crucial-hands like small suited Ax-A2s, small pairs or random suited connectors, cards like K5s, 78s, 86s etc), so if he's 3betting with a value range of 99+, AQ+ and we don't have much FE(which is the case if they are tighter than usual), I wouldn't like to be flipping or being far behind for 45bb.

Stick it in with JJ, TT will be borderline I think. He can certainly have a few bluffs or r/c 88/AJ vs us as well. If I consider it a marginal spot as you are either ahead by a small margin or far behind-then I will definitely not make a big move here with TT for that many BBs. I hope you understand my logic behind it

Originally posted by kurrkabin
Then with your reads, I guess you can fold tbh. 25% btn open is very tight and on top of that PKR players don't 3bet as much(which is your observation), then I think we can safely put SB on a tigher range and prolly exclude a bit part of his bluffs(which is crucial-hands like small suited Ax-A2s, small pairs or random suited connectors, cards like K5s, 78s, 86s etc), so if he's 3betting with a value range of 99+, AQ+ and we don't have much FE(which is the case if they are tighter than usual), I wouldn't like to be flipping or being far behind for 45bb.

Stick it in with JJ, TT will be borderline I think. He can certainly have a few bluffs or r/c 88/AJ vs us as well. If I consider it a marginal spot as you are either ahead by a small margin or far behind-then I will definitely not make a big move here with TT for that many BBs. I hope you understand my logic behind it

Yes, great explanation. Thanks!

There was similar discussion on Demonic's hand with 1010.
I prefer to 3 bet fold to 4 bet as from my experience you will see people always getting it in with 4 bet JJ+ AK. Once you pick up read that they respond to your 3 bets with 4 betting 99+ AQ+ then you can 3 bet call 4 bet with 1010 (it becomes bottom call of 4 bet for these stack sizes). Also flatting 1010 here is good line if you have post flop edge and are ready to bluff catch opponent - it also depends on his post flop tendencies and how he acts vs you post flop + history you might have.
In vacuum I 3 bet 1010 vs late position open as it is a value hand and if I see regs going out of the line started to 4 bet shove me lighter I have perfect hand to call them down with and make them spew. Flatting is also nice vs regs who triple barrel often and bluff or turn hands into bluff (regs do this often on 15s stars). Hope my experience helped you somehow also

Thank you for your reply!

I think you misread the hand a little bit since here I am not in the action yet and the pot is already 3bet, so I have a decision whether to 4bet the SB and get it in or coldcall a 3bet or fold. I think calling could be an option since we are ~40+bb deep and probs I could outplay this reg but then we welcome the BTN in the hand as well and that is pretty bad situation IMO. therefore I just chose the safest option of all (fold) since I will have plenty of profitable spots in this SNG later on.

Sorry for misreading taught you 3 bet BTN open
If you flat you are in danger of facing shove from BTN. Are you ready to call it ?
I think flatting and then folding is very exploitable. What else would you flat in this spot? Hands like AK you would cold 4 bet, the same goes for QQ+. So your flatting range here is super capped to A10s-AQs, AJo-AQo, 1010 and JJ! If you flat any of this and face shove you are folding all of it I assume? If opponent knows this he can profitably 4 bet shove in those spots ATC cause your gap and dead money in the pot already give him amazing odds to do so.
This is why I would take initiative here and cold 4 bet (try to pick it up right there) as original 3 bettor also has hands that he will not continue with once we cold 4 bet. In this spot say that he 3 bet BTN with 77+ AJ+ which is 7.24%. He will continue to your 4 bet with JJ+ AK and that's being too generous , he will probably flat JJ-QQ, 5 bet shove KK+ AK. So in this instance you get flat to your 4 bet with JJ-QQ 0.90% of total range (12% of his 3 bet range), and he will 5 bet jam KK+ AK which is 2.11% of total range (29% of his 3 bet range).
All this means that he will continue with 12% + 29% = 41% of time but he will fold 59% of the time to our 4 bet therefore making cold 4 bet very profitable option.
Also note that once he flats ,he has you dominated with JJ-QQ vs 1010 but dont forget that 18% of time you will beat his range with 1010 in that spot. Once he 5 bet jams which is 29% of the time you have easy fold cause you expect him to dominate you with KK+ AK+.
All in all I would definitely 4 bet for value rather than cold call cause I wouldn't give BTN here amazing price to exploit us and also math part of it helps us understand why is it more profitable to do so (stack sizes are perfect here for 4 betting!)
Hope all this helped somehow just my 2 cents on it

wow thats one "in-depth" approach to this hand. Great thinking, the only options I was really considering is jam or fold, but given all the ''superwise'' assumptions you gave I suppose 4bet to ~3k and fold to 5bet would be even better . If he flats 4bet (not very likely though) I am going to have a hard time since it is a trap most often so I shouldnt even bother cbeting the board without a set.

Originally posted by benaars
wow thats one "in-depth" approach to this hand. Great thinking, the only options I was really considering is jam or fold, but given all the ''superwise'' assumptions you gave I suppose 4bet to ~3k and fold to 5bet would be even better . If he flats 4bet (not very likely though) I am going to have a hard time since it is a trap most often so I shouldnt even bother cbeting the board without a set.

You welcome man
Definitely more profitable to 4bet less fold to 5 bet (with those assumptions above) then to jam (too many blinds behind for all of you guys). As far as sizing goes I think 2.2 to 2.5x is excellent sizing here. If we do min 4 bet, SB will be likely to flat even wider then JJ-QQ (probably all AJ-AQ hands also as well as 99-10 for example) so we get into a bit more trouble post flop that way. Just remember to always narrow opponents range and calculate equity you have against it - it will help you a lot with decisions post flop.