55$ Final table BU shove vs BB 3bet

Hi all,

Generally I'm tight vs BB 3bets, and looser vs SB 3bets without further reads. You should definitely not base a decision on purely the 3bet stat.

Vs this sizing I'm reluctant to shove also, it looks on the bigger side and value-y more often. I'd say vs this sizing peeling is also quite bad, so I'm going for the nit fold here.

Originally posted by chenny8888
Hi all,

Generally I'm tight vs BB 3bets, and looser vs SB 3bets without further reads. You should definitely not base a decision on purely the 3bet stat.

Vs this sizing I'm reluctant to shove also, it looks on the bigger side and value-y more often. I'd say vs this sizing peeling is also quite bad, so I'm going for the nit fold here.

Agree
I think people in bb call more often then 3 beting with ranges that they will usualy 3 bet from sb, so I give more respect to bb 3 bet then sb 3 bet
Callin also is kinda bad pre cos u r not deep enough but if he istraight forward post flop guy u can call and play ip
Readless and icm wise fold would be my default here

Ok, good to know I am a maniac. Next time I will listen to my good conscience and fold.

BTW: Forgot to ask 1 more thing:

Why would you give more credit to a BB 3bet than a SB?

On one hand seems like the SB has also to worry about BB waking up with a hand, so I do not see why his 3b range would be wider.

So if we assume that BB and SB are the same player, how would their 3b ranges, in general, differ in the following cathegories:

- Value: 3bet purely for value.

- Semi-bluff: 3bet with a marginal hand or uncomfortable to play OOP.

- Air: Self-explanatory.

IMO value should be roughly the same, while for the other 2 BB would have a wider range than SB.

I think BB also have the incentive to 3bet of the "thief punisher effect": "If you try to steal my blinds this is what is going to happen guys, so better give me walks."

Obvioulsy I am underestimating some of my assumptions, so please let me know where I am going wrong.

Thanks a lot guys.

Hi,

Sb has a lot more reason to 3-bet with wider range, since there are more money in the pot. If he "feels" that you´re stealing then he only has to make 4-4.2BB raise to take down pot which is 6BB and put BB very difficult spot with strong hands.
For example if I decide to play I would almost always 3-bet KQ/JTs/A9s @ SB since I can BB to fold better hands and it also puts you more difficult spot.
If I call I give BB option to squeeze or call with very wide range.
If I have the same range @ BB I would likely call more often, since I get very good pot odds, no-one can squeeze and there is not that much point to fight over 6BB pot with marginal hands if I can likely outplay opponent postflop with a lot less variance.

Best regards,

KT for ex
sb 3bet is > call
BB call is most + ev play imo
From reasons kaitz said

The thing is all medium strengh hands imo from SB is better to 3 bet then call, and all those hands r better to call then 3 bet from BB

Thx for the answer guys,

What you say makes sense; you would shift some of your medium-strength value hands from your calling range on the BB to your 3bet range if you are on the SB.

However, that does not fully contradict my statement, since I think the incentive to 3bet bluff from the BB is still quite high.

That means that the 3bet range from the SB would be stronger, since you would 3 bet medium-to-high strength hands + bluffs, while on the other hand, the BB 3bet range would be more polarized to either very good hands or bluffs.

Therefore I find it hard to come up to a conclusion.

I think the incentive to call given the odds is much higher though, so generally the 3bet stat will be quite low. Here in BB's spot I'm likely to take some suited combinations and bluff them, and maybe some 65o hands, but you will see me personally passive defend most of my range vs a wide button open. However in the SB I will have a very very narrow call range, and maybe 20% 3bet depending on your button steal.