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Zoom 100 - preflop

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maritsula
Joined: 19.12.2011

Poker Stars, $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

BTN: $226.41 (226.4 bb)
SB: $100 (100 bb)
BB: $121.11 (121.1 bb)
UTG: $107.22 (107.2 bb)
MP: $120.53 (120.5 bb)
Hero (CO): $154.02 (154 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q A
UTG folds, MP raises to $3, Hero calls $3, BTN folds, SB raises to $13, BB folds, MP raises to $26, Hero raises to $135, SB folds

When I played the hand I felt that a shove would be +ev due to the fact that MP was 4b way too much and SB was an ok reg who could lay down a hand as strong as AK. I need some help with calculating the EV of my shove.

I have the following information:

I know that SB squeezes in that spot with a 3% frequency over the last 10k hands and has folded 1/1 times to a re raise

MP seems like a reg with 22/21/11 over 700 hands and has 38% fold to 3bet and 30% 4bet.

Assumptions:
SB will only call with AA/KK, 0.9/3 = 30% of the time
MP 4bets with a 6% range and only calls with AA/KK (0.9%) 15% of the time

vs KK+ we have 21% equity

My calculation which is def wrong is the following:

EVfold = 151bb
EVpush = (% they both fold)*(dead money + my stack) + (probability SB calls)*(size of pot*equity + difference in stack sizes) + (probability MP calls)*(size of pot*equity + difference in stack sizes)

=(0.85*0.70)*(40+150)+(1-(0.70))*(230bb *21%+50)+(1-(0.85))*(255bb *21%+35) =115bb+30bb+12bb=157
EVdiff = +6bb


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6 replies
DarkAwi
Joined: 15.06.2010

I don't think you can clearly state that MP has high 4bet% over a 700 hand sample. The sample is way too low, even for an accurate fold to 3bet%.

Also, I don't understand, why do you think SB would fold AK/QQ? What monster do you rep, when you don't 3betting MP who doesn't folded so far to 3bets?

I wouldn't expect MP foldting too much either, after 4 betting a 3% squeeze range from SB.


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maritsula
Joined: 19.12.2011

Originally posted by DarkAwi
I don't think you can clearly state that MP has high 4bet% over a 700 hand sample. The sample is way too low, even for an accurate fold to 3bet%.

Also, I don't understand, why do you think SB would fold AK/QQ? What monster do you rep, when you don't 3betting MP who doesn't folded so far to 3bets?

I wouldn't expect MP foldting too much either, after 4 betting a 3% squeeze range from SB.

I flat some AA/KK combos IP

I do expect sb to fold a hand as strong as AK QQ

I dont think MP knows how often sb is squeezing.

30% 4bet over 700 hands is enough for me to know that he is way out of line

Overall is a badly played hand as I rely on many assumptions but I was wondering on the ev calculation rather than the actual hand!


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GingerKid
Joined: 05.08.2007

In the first term you win only dead money not your stack.
You miss cases when they both call,
When sb calls and mp folds, when mp calls and
And sb folds.

So whenever you have
P * x you need also (1-P)*x
Where p is probability


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mbml
Joined: 27.11.2008

Aggro guy wont fold ak and qq imo. SB probably would.

6% 4b range for pfr is way too optimistic imo. Most ppl dont 4b that much in CO and some dont even 4b 6% in bu.

Based on all these assumptions im pretty sure AQ is -ev shove. Gingerkid is right abt some of the stuff u are missing out.


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GingerKid
Joined: 05.08.2007

Originally posted by mbml
Gingerkid is right abt some of the stuff u are missing out.

Was writting on phone in the toilet so didnt have time to finish the calculation.

EV_push = EV_both_call + EV_both_fold + EV_sb_calls_mp_folds + EV_sb_folds_mp_calls

EV_both_call = P_mp_calls * P_sb_calls * stack_won_both_call

EV_both_fold = (1-P_mp_calls) * (1-P_sb_calls) * stack_won_both_fold

EV_sb_calls_mp_folds = P_sb_calls * (1-P_mp_calls) * stack_won_sb_calls_mp_folds

EV_sb_folds_mp_calls = (1-P_sb_calls) * P_mp_calls * stack_won_sb_folds_mp_calls

Agree?
I think it is easy to calculate terms like stack_won_both_call, I dont want to do it because I think it doesnt make sense to calculate EV in this example, because it is based on so many assumptions.


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Originally posted by GingerKid

Originally posted by mbml
Gingerkid is right abt some of the stuff u are missing out.

Was writting on phone in the toilet so didnt have time to finish the calculation.

Made my day! :D:D


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