KK 4bet

Hey GingerKid,

Preflop 4b for value is fine.

I would just bet flop and jam turn here. He can find calls with worse PP's imo even if it's something like 88 he may bluffcatch etc.

But yeah, I have no huge issues with putting this hand in our turn checking range with some frequency. Unless villain is passive or something, because then we are missing too much value.

So you think he can have PP like 88 in his 3bet CO vs MP and then call 4bet? I am not sure if he has even JJ in his range, so I would expect to see QQ+, AK most frequently and then AQs, maybe AJs, KQs.

Originally posted by GingerKid
So you think he can have PP like 88 in his 3bet CO vs MP and then call 4bet? I am not sure if he has even JJ in his range, so I would expect to see QQ+, AK most frequently and then AQs, maybe AJs, KQs.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure he has at least TT/JJ in his range.

As for stuff like 88, maybe he shouldn't have it in his range, but I think a lot of guys just see the small 4b and find themselves clicking call anyway.

Why do you think he would 3bet CO vs MP hands like 88-JJ ? I dont see anything special about his stats. I think if his 3bet is 8% vs MP probably it is QQ+, AK value and bluffs might be SC or AQ, AJ and similar. But I would never think about TT.

Originally posted by GingerKid
Why do you think he would 3bet CO vs MP hands like 88-JJ ? I dont see anything special about his stats. I think if his 3bet is 8% vs MP probably it is QQ+, AK value and bluffs might be SC or AQ, AJ and similar. But I would never think about TT.

Yeah actually you are right, he's probably not that wide. TT/JJ possible, but not 88-99. Not sure what I was thinking actually.

So would have a value range on turn here at all then?

I would check whole range on turn. I dont see hands which I can bluff on turn with equity, so no reason to be value heavy imo. Also no draws, no nead to protect, and if it gets check turn, i can shove river and he should call anyway with overpair. I assume most of people who flat with hands like AK, AQ, KQs, AJs will often flat flop vs so small size because they beat my bluffs (maybe not) and often have bdfd, so I expect those to bet on turn, and overpairs to bet for value/protection. So I dont see what could he check on turn, and if he mostly bets, then imo it is better to always check.

Originally posted by GingerKid
I would check whole range on turn. I dont see hands which I can bluff on turn with equity, so no reason to be value heavy imo. Also no draws, no nead to protect, and if it gets check turn, i can shove river and he should call anyway with overpair. I assume most of people who flat with hands like AK, AQ, KQs, AJs will often flat flop vs so small size because they beat my bluffs (maybe not) and often have bdfd, so I expect those to bet on turn, and overpairs to bet for value/protection. So I dont see what could he check on turn, and if he mostly bets, then imo it is better to always check.

Yeah sounds pretty reasonable on this board actually.

If he does have TT/JJ he probably will at least consider betting anyway. We may sometimes miss value vs TT/JJ by checking turn, but perhaps we can make more money vs his entire range this way.