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nl100 89

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sandraardnas
Joined: 11.01.2012

Poker Stars, $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $104.48 (104.5 bb)
BB: $120.75 (120.8 bb)
UTG: $100 (100 bb)
MP: $112.97 (113 bb)
CO: $225.77 (225.8 bb)
Hero (BTN): $100 (100 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with 8 9
3 folds, Hero raises to $2, SB raises to $8, BB folds, Hero calls $6

Flop: ($17) 9 J 4 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($17) 7 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $10, SB raises to $28, Hero calls $18

River: ($73) 7 (2 players)
SB bets $68.48 and is all-in, Hero folds

Results:

Spoiler

$73.00 pot ($2.80 rake)
Final Board: 9 J 4 7 7
SB mucked and won $70.20 ($34.20 net)
Hero mucked 8 9 and lost (-$36 net)

Hi, vill looks like some weak pseudo agro half reg.
His checking stats in 3b are similar to those in spr
His bet river after raising turn is 30%.
He 3bets me a lot this session, so easy pre flat.
On flop I guess betting for protect is fine when he x/f 60%, but Im not sure if its best
On turn I decided to bet against random club or some worse pairs, I wasnt expecting rise never, so I guess its my mistae, but I think he reps here some bullshit hand. On rivered blank guy like this will probaby shut down with funny bluffs and will shove only value, so I folded, although Im not sure- he still reps super polarized and he 3bes me a lot lately, so maybe it is a call?


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10 replies
mlatasrb
Joined: 01.04.2012

On flop I guess betting for protect is fine when he x/f 60%, but Im not sure if its best

I think it is big mistake not to bet for protection, especially if guy is xf 60%, which means that you let 60% of his range freeroll flop, and many of those have nice equity vs your hand. I would only check so vulnerable hand, if villian defends agro after checking. I would bet flop 30% pot size with whole range, since there is not more value than that vs his defend range.

Turn as played is imo fold. he x/r only 4%, which would mean that it is super likely value heavy. and on this flop, he will likely check many JcXc hands. even if he would not be value heavy, your equity is very low vs his range and you can expect him to bet river decent % of time.
For bluffs, he can off course have some weak Acxo hands, since flop is very draw heavy, so he doesnt need to bluff all nut bdfd, and maybe he as default check calls flop with AcAo, AcKc, AcQc, AcJc, as I would play (but I wouldnt check turn).


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KingKas
Joined: 30.06.2012

Actually that guy check/raise turn-% is 1.

I think you can fold everything vs him


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sandraardnas
Joined: 11.01.2012

Yeah, his raise is very low, but its kind of unique situation where we never know his actual x/r % or range unless we see some shd.
Besides its still might be bluff heavy range, I have 4% x/r as pfr on 20k sample and it was only bluffs.

But what I wanted to ask is how would you adapt when someone is very agro preflop against you and postflop he is still agro.

And about betting on flop 30% pot. I think its quite good idea against this vill even with our whole range even on this wet flop, but what do you think guys when opponent is more decent and has like 40% x/f? If we bet 2/3 then it would be hard to actually get value, but if we bet 30% then we might get into trouble easily.


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mlatasrb
Joined: 01.04.2012

Yeah, his raise is very low, but its kind of unique situation where we never know his actual x/r % or range unless we see some shd.
Besides its still might be bluff heavy range, I have 4% x/r as pfr on 20k sample and it was only bluffs.

It is true that he could be bluff heavy with any raise stat %, and that we can hardly conclude his range. But that you can say also for raise vs cbet, and any stat ? With cr it is special that he cbets % of strong hands, and with raise vs cbet villian has all strong hands in range. But still we cant say for sure if e.g. 4% raise stat is bluff heavy or not, unless we see showdowns.
Since it is just weak assumption and we shouldnt make big adjustments using it, we can still use population read. You can filter your database for people who are regs (using VPIP and PFR) and filter low cr %, and see how often it is a bluff (using won %, or bluff frequency). Then you will see that low cr %, as well low raise vs cbet % on any street is in average very strong. And if this average over all regs gets very extreme value, e.g. it is 80% value, then you can say it is strong assumption and you can fold exploitatively, even if you dont have any read on this villian. If the value for average villian is not extreme, then you can just ignore it due to statistical errors.
As I analysed for my player pool, cr on all streets are value heavy no matter what preflop or postflo paction was, so I usually make exploitative folds unless I have a particular read.

But what I wanted to ask is how would you adapt when someone is very agro preflop against you and postflop he is still agro.

What do you mean by more agro? bluff heavy or simply not value heavy ? Anyway, I would bet flop for protection, and as played just fold turn even if he is bluff heavy or has unexploitable ratio, because his bluffs has nice equity and our hand has very low equity and bad playability.

And about betting on flop 30% pot. I think its quite good idea against this vill even with our whole range even on this wet flop, but what do you think guys when opponent is more decent and has like 40% x/f? If we bet 2/3 then it would be hard to actually get value, but if we bet 30% then we might get into trouble easily.

if villian is decent, then he will check some draws (some GS, fd, OESD), will check middle pairs weak Jx, some % of JJ, maybe AcA etc, maybe AK, AQ will cc flop.
If villian has solid ranges, and is xf around 40%, then it means that he will cbet this flop with low %, meaning that you can more often realize your equity, and be in a profitable spot once he checks.
Still if you bet 30% pot, he has to defend likely around 85-90%, because your bluffs have nice equity vs his weak cc range, and if he constructed his range to xf 40% flop, how is he going to manage to defend 85-90% range on flop? The hands that he x/f, are likely having very low equity (it makes sense to x/f lowest equity hands), so with non of them he can call +EV vs your bet range, even if you bet 30% pot, so it is nearly impossible that he can defend 85-90% range +EV.
And off course if villian has decent x/f frequency, then you dont bet whole range, but you bet Jx+ for value (at least 2 streets value with any Jx vs such range), and 9x, TT you can bet 2 streets 30% pot size and check river for value (or bet flop 30% pot, and check turn, call river, but I prefer bet turn check river). If villian attacks your capt range with raises, then you also bet 30% your strong hands (so all value hands since it is max EV in that case to bet sets 30% pot), and he cant anymore raise for value e.g. with JQ).

I bet 30% as default, and it works very well vs every reg. some of them start spewing, some of them traping, but still, nobody can defend +EV >80% range.
It is similar spot when you cbet flop in 3bet pot on Axx, Kxx board, you can cbet 30% pot, and for villian is almost impossible to defend enough of range +EV, and most of regs are confused and dont know what to do since it is not common. Just try to see how would you defend vs 30% pot cbet on Ks8c3c BB vs BU 3bet, and you are BU, so if you can manage to defend 80% range. You would have to call many Ax hands, but also float weak PP, Qx hands, which is not that bad if you are IP. But try other spot, you 3bet BB vs BU, and check flop, and face 30% pot size bet, how would you defend?


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Majku99
Joined: 22.02.2012

Hey sandra, on flop I like 30% bet and on the turn I would fold despite the fact his aggro pre and post.
My adjustment to this kind of villain is tighter ORaising range and wider calls postflop. But 89s here I think is too wide


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mlatasrb
Joined: 01.04.2012

Originally posted by Majku99
Hey sandra, on flop I like 30% bet and on the turn I would fold despite the fact his aggro pre and post.
My adjustment to this kind of villain is tighter ORaising range and wider calls postflop. But 89s here I think is too wide

I think 89s plays good vs very agro villian in 3bet pot only if villian is folding vs raise. It could be also good if we can c/shove turn and create enough FE when we have a GS and similar. But if he barrels very agro and doesnt fold enough vs raises (floats wide vs raises) then imo 89s will not play good.


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mlatasrb
Joined: 01.04.2012

Anyone knows if coaches are still answering threads? I posted several threads, but none of them are answered for more than a week. I have just looked for threads for all limits, non are answered by coaches for more than 2 weeks.


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sandraardnas
Joined: 11.01.2012

new policy I guess


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mlatasrb
Joined: 01.04.2012

Originally posted by sandraardnas
new policy I guess

what does it mean, that they will not answer threads at all?


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sandraardnas
Joined: 11.01.2012

https://forums.pokerstrategy.com/forum/thread.php?threadid=332750
from this thread I assume you are right unfortunately.
But its not that bad, you can still try to post on polish forum


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