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NL2 deep: river value bet after turning straight on 3 flush board?

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briccius
Joined: 26.06.2007

Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

Play hand

$0.01/$0.02 No-Limit Hold'em (4 handed)

Known players:
[tg]SB$5.14:///////;BB (Hero)$5.47:///////;CO$5.01:///////;BU$5.48:///////;[/tg]

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5:s, A:s.
CO raises to $0.06, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.04.

Flop: ($0.13) 3:c, 4:d, 8:c (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $0.10, Hero calls $0.10.

Turn: ($0.33) 2:c (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $0.25, Hero raises to $0.80, CO calls $0.55.

River: ($1.93) J:h (2 players)

Spoiler

Hero bets $0.94, CO calls $0.94.

Final Pot: $3.81.
Results follow:

CO shows a flush, eight high(5:c 7:c).
Hero shows a straight, five high(5:s A:s).

CO wins with a flush, eight high(5:c 7:c).

Should I valuebet here? Please do not tell me I should have 3 bet pre. I know I should have =)


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6 replies
nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

You should 3 bet pre if you were 100BB deep. In your case I dunno.
Now let's see your reasoning for your actions:
Flop: why do you check?
Turn: why do you raise? what will you do if get 3 bet? what will happen if you just call?
River: What hands are you targetting with your river bet? what do you think is better - x/c , x/f or bet? You are bet/folding or something else?


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briccius
Joined: 26.06.2007

1. Flop: I just want to x/c with my gutshot. I have between 3 and 7 outs and sometimes my A high hand is good. If I hit, I might win a big pot with a well-concealed straight.

2. Turn: I raise for value and hope to be paid by OPs maybe with 1 club. Also any Ac might pay, also sets/ 2pair. If I get 3 bet I should probably fold. Maybe calling is better. Then I can get value on a river lead from some hands or x/c again.

3. I admit the river value bet seems a little otimistic. Might still be called by sets some 2 pair maybe if villain is fishy. That´s why I made it half pot. If I get raised I fold. I think bet-folding or check-calling are both possible. Not sure which is better. That´s why I started this thread.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

Do you have any stats or notes on villain?
I am asking , cause in a vacuum vs passive villain you will bet/fold and vs aggressive villain you will x/call.


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VaskataBuci
Joined: 08.08.2011

I also prefer 3betting preflop. On the flop I do not like the x/c at all: you don't have pure outs to make the best hand. Very often if A comes it will hit villain's rainge better and will make you put more money with your weak A. If the 2 comes and he has 56 you are in trouble. Even with 7 outs you don't have the odds to call. As played, I like donking the flop on this kind of board or x/r as bluf, I'm personally more inclined to lead the flop, in order to make some stronger Ax combos and broarways, that still have some equity against our A high to fold.


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briccius
Joined: 26.06.2007

Do you have any stats or notes on villain?

No. Generally play without stats, and don´t think I had a note on him. B/f was the plan.

@VaskataBuci: I agree I have some reverse implied odds, but I am not planning to bloat the pot once an A hits. I do not think it´s right to assume an offsuit deuce is a bad card for me just cause he might also have 56 sometimes. That´s a long shot. I agree that if he had 56 and a 2 hits , I am in trouble. And if it is the 2c, I am not going broke. Also I block one 5. If you consider his position, he does not always have a pair or a good A, so I am sometimes ahead on the flop (as against his actual hand). Still, leading flop is certainly also interesting.


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Alleen86
Joined: 27.05.2010

I think calling preflop is standard. On this board, maybe check/raising would be a decent option. I think we should ask yourself - would we raise sets there? I think in many cases we would. So, in this case, we should also raise our weak draws, which a gutshot and A-high probably is. We don't have all clear outs for out straight and TP would also not be a great hand with this kicker on the turn.


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