SH Zoom A3s, SB vs BB, 4bet Bluffing

In fact he is pushing TT+ and I think that here he is with the lower pairs - 99-77. He can go even lower in pairs.

I like ur thinking but i would get a few more history with villain before making these plays. He could just be running hot the last 100 hands.

I think your assessment of his range is OK, though the problem is that what do you represent? Do you really x/r AA etc in that spot?

Originally posted by MJPerry
I think your assessment of his range is OK, though the problem is that what do you represent? Do you really x/r AA etc in that spot?

I agree it might be a problem and I thought about it, but forgot to write it here. But given it's NL10 I don't think it's an issue. Ok, I don't expect him to fold JJ-TT that often, but I also don't expect him to bluffcatch with AK or AQ because he thinks that I represent nothing. What do you think?

The push is very optimistic and expensive.

i think he folds the same range to a cbet. or do you think they float AK here?

what range do you hope to get folded that would have called preflop? his range is essentially PP, and this board is ideal with PPs

also is the player unknown? are you unknown to him? As said before I would wait for some history before pulling these stunts

You spazzed hard, as other stated, it's hard to put you on particular range that isn't pure bluff, you got lucky there.

Originally posted by thazar
what range do you hope to get folded that would have called preflop? his range is essentially PP, and this board is ideal with PPs

also is the player unknown? are you unknown to him? As said before I would wait for some history before pulling these stunts

I wouldn't say that his range is essentially PP. I believe people will generally have much more combos of AJ, AQ, AK than mid pocket pairs there. I don't think the majority of players would like to setmine vs 4bets. At least they shouldn't. If they want to defend mid pocket pairs there, I believe that shoving would be more profitable than calling.

I wrote all the info that I have about him. Probably he doesn't know me that well, but has some history. If he knows me, he would then have an info that I don't 4bet alot and that I don't check/raise as a preflop aggressor alot.

Originally posted by Berezovaya
You spazzed hard, as other stated, it's hard to put you on particular range that isn't pure bluff, you got lucky there.

I agree it is hard, but I stick to the fact that they don't even try to put me on a range and I believe it's true for 90% of the NL10 field.

Why I got lucky? He snap called with KK. ♦

Originally posted by Tomaloc
i think he folds the same range to a cbet. or do you think they float AK here?

I agree with that and believe it's true for the majority of players. I elaborated it a bit in an openning post.

That flop is bad even for AA
What is he protecting his BB with?
Could be links or as you say.
You wanted a fold it never came,
That is not a bluff or even semi bluff?

Originally posted by Alleen86

Originally posted by thazar
what range do you hope to get folded that would have called preflop? his range is essentially PP, and this board is ideal with PPs

also is the player unknown? are you unknown to him? As said before I would wait for some history before pulling these stunts

I wouldn't say that his range is essentially PP. I believe people will generally have much more combos of AJ, AQ, AK than mid pocket pairs there. I don't think the majority of players would like to setmine vs 4bets. At least they shouldn't. If they want to defend mid pocket pairs there, I believe that shoving would be more profitable than calling.

I wrote all the info that I have about him. Probably he doesn't know me that well, but has some history. If he knows me, he would then have an info that I don't 4bet alot and that I don't check/raise as a preflop aggressor alot.

C'mon, villain is calling your 4b OOP, he has more PP ans AK only.

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by Alleen86

Originally posted by thazar
what range do you hope to get folded that would have called preflop? his range is essentially PP, and this board is ideal with PPs

also is the player unknown? are you unknown to him? As said before I would wait for some history before pulling these stunts

I wouldn't say that his range is essentially PP. I believe people will generally have much more combos of AJ, AQ, AK than mid pocket pairs there. I don't think the majority of players would like to setmine vs 4bets. At least they shouldn't. If they want to defend mid pocket pairs there, I believe that shoving would be more profitable than calling.

I wrote all the info that I have about him. Probably he doesn't know me that well, but has some history. If he knows me, he would then have an info that I don't 4bet alot and that I don't check/raise as a preflop aggressor alot.

C'mon, villain is calling your 4b OOP, he has more PP ans AK only.

Maybe. My perception was always that they do not 3bet and call 4bets with mid and low pocket pairs, especially 100bb deep. Right play would be to actually call the majority of those. For example, the lowest pocket pair I'm 3betting by default BB vs SB vs 2,5X open is TT. So for me it's weird that someone 3bets 99-55 and then call 4bet. Do they 3bet for value or as a bluff? That's why 3betting something like AQ+, TT+ for value make more sense to me. And when they face a 4bet, hands like AQ,AK, JJ-TT look too strong to fold, but too weak to shove for value. So they call (actually, it's good to call those if they expect me to have a polarized 4betting range). I also don't expect someone to call a 4bet with mid suited connector. Overall, on this kind of flop the strongest hand I expect them to hit is an overpair with JJ-TT (and sometimes they might slowplay QQ+).

Originally posted by htghguuh
That flop is bad even for AA
What is he protecting his BB with?
Could be links or as you say.
You wanted a fold it never came,
That is not a bluff or even semi bluff?

Could you elaborate why this flop is bad for AA? Do they 3bet/call hands like 88-66? The same question as above - do they 3bet those for value or as a bluff? Also, do they 3bet/call suited connectors?

Technically, my shove wasn't just a pure bluff because I have the nut BDFD and probably some outs for TP could also be counted. So, I would consider this as something between a bluff and a semi-bluff.

u bluffed preflop, he called. His range for call is ~ TT, JJ, AKo, AKs. 1.2$ bet on flop seems likeblockbet. Anyway players gets crazy and tilt with crap hands, thats why its hard to tell his actual range. In micros its hard to bluff many times, if he didnt fold after 1st bluff, then 2nd bluff he will fold with even smaller chances. So this is too aggro postflop in long run if u ask me

but I also don't expect him to bluffcatch with AK or AQ because he thinks that I represent nothing. What do you think?

we are not sure if he is even betting those. For him its probably check and bluffcatch turn or river than bluffcatch vs c/r and bet when not making many better to fold. He can fold some worse hands, but even Ax or Kx not need for him to fold, cause he dominates those and also those have only 3 outs.

Of course he might not think that way and just bet AK, I am just saying that they might not bet those all the time.

If he has KQ, he can fold it to a 1/3 cbet. Probably nothing else folds. Beside if he bets AQ. AK might even call, once he did bet, because he smells a bluff. Who knows. But we have little equity vs his calling range. And we have little fold equity. So I prefer 1/3 cbet, or maybe even x/f.

I agree it is hard, but I stick to the fact that they don't even try to put me on a range and I believe it's true for 90% of the NL10 field.

I do not think that its the case when a guy is 23/17 in 132 hands. THey should really at least try to put you on a range. (I mean look at guys at pokerstrategy who play those micros - we all try to put on ranges and think) And even if he does not put, he just has his PP and he calls a c/r because not much money is left in the stack comparing to the pot

Originally posted by Alleen86

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by Alleen86

Originally posted by thazar
what range do you hope to get folded that would have called preflop? his range is essentially PP, and this board is ideal with PPs

also is the player unknown? are you unknown to him? As said before I would wait for some history before pulling these stunts

I wouldn't say that his range is essentially PP. I believe people will generally have much more combos of AJ, AQ, AK than mid pocket pairs there. I don't think the majority of players would like to setmine vs 4bets. At least they shouldn't. If they want to defend mid pocket pairs there, I believe that shoving would be more profitable than calling.

I wrote all the info that I have about him. Probably he doesn't know me that well, but has some history. If he knows me, he would then have an info that I don't 4bet alot and that I don't check/raise as a preflop aggressor alot.

C'mon, villain is calling your 4b OOP, he has more PP ans AK only.

Maybe. My perception was always that they do not 3bet and call 4bets with mid and low pocket pairs, especially 100bb deep. Right play would be to actually call the majority of those. For example, the lowest pocket pair I'm 3betting by default BB vs SB vs 2,5X open is TT. So for me it's weird that someone 3bets 99-55 and then call 4bet. Do they 3bet for value or as a bluff? That's why 3betting something like AQ+, TT+ for value make more sense to me. And when they face a 4bet, hands like AQ,AK, JJ-TT look too strong to fold, but too weak to shove for value. So they call (actually, it's good to call those if they expect me to have a polarized 4betting range). I also don't expect someone to call a 4bet with mid suited connector. Overall, on this kind of flop the strongest hand I expect them to hit is an overpair with JJ-TT (and sometimes they might slowplay QQ+).

Actually it depends how he sees you. If you are opening wide from SB, he may 3 bet PP to narrow your range and better the opportunity to get paid off when he hits a set...

Like I'm not replying to this wtf us it some kinda pre lude into wot we can expect in the future at poker stars because all off a sudden yore lumpy A lands and you went to the river to get it against a kk and you landed A 44