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Turn reraise in 3-bet pot with improvet TPTK

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LeSavant
Joined: 09.12.2006

Full Tilt - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: 69.5 BB (VPIP: 15.79, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 19)
MP: 267 BB (VPIP: 21.45, PFR: 18.01, 3Bet Preflop: 5.73, Hands: 653)
CO: 233.5 BB (VPIP: 39.13, PFR: 26.81, 3Bet Preflop: 8.79, Hands: 278)
BTN: 225.5 BB (VPIP: 45.45, PFR: 25.76, 3Bet Preflop: 9.09, Hands: 66)
Hero (SB): 113 BB
BB: 65 BB (VPIP: 28.79, PFR: 13.64, 3Bet Preflop: 10.34, Hands: 67)

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K♦ A♣

fold, fold, CO raises to 2 BB, BTN calls 2 BB, Hero raises to 10 BB, fold, fold, BTN calls 8 BB

Flop: (23 BB, 2 players) 9♥ J♠ 5♥
Hero bets 11.5 BB, BTN calls 11.5 BB

Turn: (46 BB, 2 players) K♥
Hero bets 34.5 BB, BTN raises to 69 BB, fold

BTN wins 108 BB

At this point I knew that Villain calls 3-bets a lot with K9s-KQs type hands. Later I got a read on him that he is very spewy and is able to raise turn with air (although that was in single raised pots), but at this point I only knew he was on the loose agressive side preflop and did not really know about his postflop play.
I decided to make a tight rather tight fold, he's got me beat with a big portion of his range and the turn raise looks very strong. I am still not sure what to do here, although I did not go into deeper analysis yet. Also I would have been committed if I don't fold here. What do you think, guys?


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12 replies
la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013

Without good reads, folding turn is standard.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

I do not think we will achieve much with the flop bet.
Turn is a fold.


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tiltmonk
Joined: 02.07.2014

Bet-fold turn is ok, but I'd prefer to bet 1/2 of the pot on the turn bcs a lot if fishes draw were closed, also, now he could a 2p KJ a lot of the other.


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I wouldnt cbet this flop. There are no good cards for you to barrel ott.


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Hesticus
Joined: 24.06.2008

Against a 45/25 player we can play for value only. No need to play on FE or whatsoever. Turn fold looks fine for the moment.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

The sample is too small to base decisions on that.


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YohanN7
Joined: 15.06.2009

Look over the sizing. The flop bet is ridiculous. It is a pot sweetener. Much better to check. The button is a well-established loosie-goosie after 66 hands and those stats. These particular stats don't need thousands of samples to be reliable. I'd check-fold.


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LeSavant
Joined: 09.12.2006

I think the cbet flop is standard, OOP. Even if it does not achieve a lot, I think its still the best option and I am keeping the Initiative.

a) if I check and he bets would you just ch/f? I think this is too weak?
b) On the other hand if I c/c the flop I give him the opportunity to take a freecard, set a price and give up all the FE I have.
c) betting: I still do have a lot of FE against suited connector or Pocketpairs and Axs type hands he would probaply call a 3-bet with, also I did not want to give a freecard as I still might have the best hand here a lot of the time. My plan was to give up on a blank and make a big bet for value/protection on a K or A turn, targetting his Jx and Kx type of hands.

Not that it matters as I didn't have the read yet, but a couple of hands later he got called down 2-3 times on floating the flop and raisung the turn and he showed total garbage (K hi NPND etc.) so he either was on tilt or really spewy in general. Knowing this I probaply would have called.

@JohanN7 What size would you have made it, I think if I make it bigger. I don't think a larger size would increase my FE (maybe AQ or something which I dominate anyway) and I can't really go for protection because if I get called I am behind most of the times anyway.

@Hesticus Never bluff a donkey ofc., but I'm still gonna cbet until I got a read that he folds to little.


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YohanN7
Joined: 15.06.2009

I'd check-fold. This flop hits his range.

A larger bet always gets more folds, but that isn't the issue here. The issue is that you create a big pot (with a small bet that will be called by this player profile) when you absolutely don't want a big pot. Who knows, this dude might be a good player. Many can play loosey-goosey preflop and on flop, but then play rational poker after that. Against such a dude you certainly don't want to play a big pot OOP.

The reasons you list for a bet are of course logically valid. As I see it, they are slightly outweighed by other considerations. That's all there is to it:) We all judge these tight spots a little differently.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

I do not like playing big pot on this board.


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Pnnkaznk
Joined: 13.11.2009

I wuld check/fold flop too.


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Hesticus
Joined: 24.06.2008

@Hesticus Never bluff a donkey ofc., but I'm still gonna cbet until I got a read that he folds to little.

I think it's totally legitimate to do this. We should just experience ourselves. I can play against 2 pros and 1 would fold here to a Cbet more often and the other won't. Depends I guess.


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