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TPTK in 3bet pot vs flop raise

 
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Last Post by Mozzek 10 years ago
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BelligerentBird
BelligerentBird
Joined: 08.08.2016
Posts: 85
10.11.2016, 17:15

PokerStars - $0.05 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: 101.4 BB (VPIP: 13.82, PFR: 7.89, 3Bet Preflop: 2.08, Hands: 155)
UTG+1: 142 BB (VPIP: 13.61, PFR: 10.54, 3Bet Preflop: 3.36, Hands: 1,922)
MP: 116.6 BB (VPIP: 16.71, PFR: 9.98, 3Bet Preflop: 1.36, Hands: 1,155)
MP+1: 55 BB (VPIP: 42.11, PFR: 26.32, 3Bet Preflop: 16.67, Hands: 19)
CO: 100 BB (VPIP: 16.57, PFR: 10.91, 3Bet Preflop: 3.60, Hands: 1,432)
Hero (BTN): 100 BB
SB: 128.6 BB (VPIP: 16.23, PFR: 12.48, 3Bet Preflop: 4.88, Hands: 733)
BB: 112 BB (VPIP: 14.29, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 8)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has A♦ K♠

fold, fold, fold, fold, CO raises to 3 BB, Hero raises to 10.4 BB, fold, fold, CO calls 7.4 BB

Flop: (22.2 BB, 2 players) 7♥ A♣ Q♠
CO checks, Hero bets 10.6 BB, CO raises to 27 BB, Hero raises to 89.6 BB and is all-in, fold

Hi guys! I have 1.4k hands with this guy and his "Fold to 3bet" stat is 50%. So I assume that he calls 3bets with quite wide range. I already saw this guy called 3bet with A8s and AJo. But I'm not sure that he would raise them OTF and his "Raise Cbet in 3bet pots" is 1/10. So if he raises only QQ, AQ, AK and 77 on this flop, then I have 22% equity and it looks pretty ugly. But if add some other Ax in his range, than it's ok to go broke in this spot. Do you think he could raise some weaker aces here?


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MyFloXyBabY
MyFloXyBabY
Joined: 15.02.2010
Posts: 2,090
10.11.2016, 17:22

Horrible 3bet on the flop. You make villain manage to get away, congratulations.
Have you ever heard of people developing 3betting ranges on this (or for that matter, any other) type of flop ? No ? Guess there must be a reason ;)


Chinese proverb : Give a HUD to a man, he'll exploit one day, but teach him to use a tracker... and he'll complain about his AIEV all his life :D
"Si debis pedere, pedis superbe. (If you must fart, fart proudly)" VorpalF2F

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la55i
la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013
Posts: 8,896
10.11.2016, 17:41

By 3betting OTF you isolate yourself against sets and 2 pair.


Blog :spade: Private Coaching :spade: Website

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BelligerentBird
BelligerentBird
Joined: 08.08.2016
Posts: 85
10.11.2016, 20:03

Originally posted by MyFloXyBabY
Horrible 3bet on the flop. You make villain manage to get away, congratulations.
Have you ever heard of people developing 3betting ranges on this (or for that matter, any other) type of flop ? No ? Guess there must be a reason ;)

No, I really have no idea what you're talking about :)
Actually I thought that when he raises me otf in 3bet pot he's kinda comitted and willing to go broke anyway. So I didn't see any difference between calling and 3beting.


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BelligerentBird
BelligerentBird
Joined: 08.08.2016
Posts: 85
10.11.2016, 20:12

Originally posted by la55i
By 3betting OTF you isolate yourself against sets and 2 pair.

Yes, I agree. But my question is not about 3betting, it's more about considering fold. Do you think he could raise with weaker hands? What do you suggest here? Bet/call OTF and check/call at any turn?


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la55i
la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013
Posts: 8,896
10.11.2016, 21:19

Originally posted by BelligerentBird

Originally posted by la55i
By 3betting OTF you isolate yourself against sets and 2 pair.

Yes, I agree. But my question is not about 3betting, it's more about considering fold. Do you think he could raise with weaker hands? What do you suggest here? Bet/call OTF and check/call at any turn?

That plan sounds a lot better. He can have some random bluffs sometimes. Still I think his range must be value heavy. But your hand is still quite strong so I think I wouldn't fold just yet.

So I didn't see any difference between calling and 3beting.

The difference is that if he ever has any bluffs here, now he will fold those. And now you make sure that if villain wants to play, you play for stacks and you are probably always behind. If you just call villain still has those bluffs and if he has a value hand you might be able to get away and not donate your whole stack to him.


Blog :spade: Private Coaching :spade: Website

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MyFloXyBabY
MyFloXyBabY
Joined: 15.02.2010
Posts: 2,090
10.11.2016, 21:24

Please don't fold dude, it's an easy call. You can't build a 3bet pot to fold TPTK once villain sneeze.


Chinese proverb : Give a HUD to a man, he'll exploit one day, but teach him to use a tracker... and he'll complain about his AIEV all his life :D
"Si debis pedere, pedis superbe. (If you must fart, fart proudly)" VorpalF2F

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nitrol
nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010
Posts: 11,244
10.11.2016, 21:26

We cannot fold on flop so I like to call his raise with the plan to call again on turn if it is not a huge bet.


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MyFloXyBabY
MyFloXyBabY
Joined: 15.02.2010
Posts: 2,090
10.11.2016, 22:20

Originally posted by nitrol
call again on turn if it is not a huge bet.

:pcuser:


Chinese proverb : Give a HUD to a man, he'll exploit one day, but teach him to use a tracker... and he'll complain about his AIEV all his life :D
"Si debis pedere, pedis superbe. (If you must fart, fart proudly)" VorpalF2F

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la55i
la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013
Posts: 8,896
10.11.2016, 22:44

Yeaa that is a bit problematic since we would have less than pot left OTT. If villain bets 1/3 we would have another 1/3 bet OTR and we wouldn't give up anyway. I think it is either broke or fold OTT.

So basically our plan is to go broke but just call his raise to keep his bluffs. Does he really have so many bluffs that we can do this? It depends on villain of course and we have to put some bluffs in his range but I still have to wonder if folding actually would be better play.


Blog :spade: Private Coaching :spade: Website

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BelligerentBird
BelligerentBird
Joined: 08.08.2016
Posts: 85
10.11.2016, 22:48

Originally posted by nitrol
We cannot fold on flop so I like to call his raise with the plan to call again on turn if it is not a huge bet.

What do you mean? If we call OTF, then on the turn pot is 74 bb and he probably just goes all-in with the rest of his stack.


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Mozzek
Mozzek
Joined: 16.07.2016
Posts: 1,096
12.11.2016, 10:34

You can´t follow here fold to 3bet stat. This is mainly influenced by 3betting preflop. 3bet postflop is way stronger play. Usually worse than two pairs is not calling. Moreover, this board is super dry, so 3 bet should induce even more folds. Just call this next time.


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