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Calling 3bet with suited aces

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ferdhy5
Joined: 21.04.2014

In this hand I decided to call since I'm in position with a suited ace. I call the flop but maybe the price was too high. I give up on the turn
I'm just wondering if it is worth getting involved in hands like this.
Suited aces have the potencial of hitting a nut flush and I can also win the hand with the ace if I get top pair. However drawing on a 3bet pot is also very expensive and if an ace appears on the board I might also loose a big portion of my stack when villain has a better kicker. What are your thoughts on this?

888 Poker - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 100 BB (VPIP: 22.57, PFR: 15.95, 3Bet Preflop: 4.12, Hands: 263)
BB: 41.4 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 1)
UTG: 100 BB (VPIP: 52.44, PFR: 8.54, 3Bet Preflop: 4.94, Hands: 168)
CO: 50 BB (VPIP: 23.75, PFR: 22.50, 3Bet Preflop: 12.57, Hands: 497)
Hero (BTN): 103.8 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB, UTG posts penalty blind 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.4 BB) Hero has 7♠ A♠

UTG checks, fold, Hero raises to 4 BB, SB raises to 12.4 BB, BB calls 11.4 BB, fold, Hero calls 8.4 BB

Flop: (38.2 BB, 3 players) 3♠ 6♥ K♠
SB bets 29.6 BB, fold, Hero calls 29.6 BB

Turn: (97.4 BB, 2 players) 9♣
SB bets 58 BB and is all-in, fold,


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15 replies
Alleen86
Joined: 27.05.2010

I think it's fine to call, but only because BB also joined. If BB folded, I would also fold. That flop is one of the best we can hope for with our hand, but SB bets so big... I'm not sure, but think that all options are possible. I would most likelly fold.


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tmannie
Joined: 09.06.2009

The SB (Laggish) has history on you. We dont know your Stats , so it is not possible to know what he thinks of you. Because there are no stats on the BB but he folded so no problem. I think maybe you should have 4 Bet preflop ( as a semi-bluff) your hand was not really strong enough for 3bets etc. I think based on the pot odds and your draw odds you should not call. But both of you knew each others style of play so you may rightly have felt different because of that.
mannie


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scopinad
Joined: 13.06.2015

Your pre-flop raise is not a steal, it is for value with that hand, which is fine, but then too much action from these blinds, I would not have called.
Post flop, it is a 3bet pot, and the SB c-bet is too big, your cannot raise this like you normally would have to get a free card on the turn and try to hit that nut hand on the river too. Shoving would be gambling here, so that leaves a fold on the flop for me too.

A6s, A7s, A8s, trouble hands, A2s-A5s are nice suited wheels with an overcard, and A9s+ are all strong. A6s, A7s, A8s are still strong in late position though.


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Hesticus
Joined: 24.06.2008

Even though the situation seems attractive with 2 spades, the bet of villain is quite large and I tend to fold here.


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MrHappie
Joined: 25.03.2010

Preflop call is OK with 2 other players in the pot. Very difficult decision OTF, you have the nut FD, but the price IMO isn't worth it.

In situations like these, I would look at SB's 3Bet and aggression stats, I would look at how often he likes to resteal and generally assess whether I can get him off his TPTK type hands like AKo.

The 3Bet percentage seems rather low for a 6max game. Also, he is leading with a big bet into a MW pot which shows a lot of strength. If his 3Bets are mostly resteals, I may consider shoving the flop here thinking I may have some fold equity and knowing that by calling OTF, I probably don't get a free card OTT. The problem with that plan in this particular case is that if you look at the effective stack left behind, Villain is pretty much never folding his TPTK type of hands here. I think folding OTF is the better play considering the relatively tight Villain's 3Betting range and him leading huge into a MW pot and the stacks left behind.


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Dadramel
Joined: 10.08.2014

Fd, an overcard, advantage of position, a standard call otf


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adok4u
Joined: 31.03.2013

Preflop could be a fold imo. We can call here with A2s-A5s as they have possible wheel draws. Based on the action, I think it's okay to call otf as we should at least see a turn card and see if we hit our flush. Turn is a fold


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Tim128
Joined: 29.01.2017

He bets so big that even your max implied odds are 19%, which is exactly your chance to hit OTT. There is ofcourse the possibility that he doesn't fire the turn, then it would be a profitable call.

I think they are hard hands to play, because they look very nice preflop, but there are too many flops that you can't continue on and when you hit TP you can never play 'relaxed'.


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Varune
Joined: 24.04.2009

Fold pre.
1) you're against a 4% 3b range, which is way too tight to play against /w a7s. What do you do if you hit an ace and he bets like this? So you're basicly chasing 2p/flushes, which is a bad idea.
2) the fish joining the pot won't really give you more implied odds because you still have to get through SB's range aswell.
3) Postflop: i'd reckon after 263h you have an idea how he plays postflop, so you could've expected this big cbet? i'd either shove or fold here, calling to fold turn, you just let him win 50% of your stack /w 100% equity.


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KatalonacX
Joined: 22.11.2013

Fold pre. We can call here with A2s-A5s, they have possible to make "wheel" and it's MVP.
OTF fold, he bets big in MVP.


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TakingAShot
Joined: 29.05.2017

As someone else mentioned - We don't have the necessary reads but to be totally honest, in some cases I'm just jamming over him on the flop. With your call, you let the turn come down and give him a chance to bet into you in the event of a brick, which is what happened. If you just jammed over him, you have good equity in the pot and good fold equity. Either he has to fold the hand out there, or he calls and you get the see both the turn/river and realize the full equity potential of your hand.


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TakingAShot
Joined: 29.05.2017

Originally posted by Varune
Fold pre.
1) you're against a 4% 3b range, which is way too tight to play against /w a7s.

This is extremely nitty and kind of outdating thinking. So he calls to see the flop with the potential for huge implied odds and then gets away from the hand. Not much harm done if he knows when to fold and by playing more hands he's giving himself more opportunities to win pots. TAG is counter current theory.

I mean, he's on the button drawing to the nut flush and he has position. What more do you want?


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Varune
Joined: 24.04.2009

Originally posted by TakingAShot

Originally posted by Varune
Fold pre.
1) you're against a 4% 3b range, which is way too tight to play against /w a7s.

This is extremely nitty and kind of outdating thinking. So he calls to see the flop with the potential for huge implied odds and then gets away from the hand. Not much harm done if he knows when to fold and by playing more hands he's giving himself more opportunities to win pots. TAG is counter current theory.

I mean, he's on the button drawing to the nut flush and he has position. What more do you want?

It's not outdated.
You call here with huge REVERSE implied odds, if we flop an ace, what do you do if he plays bet/bet/bet? we're 100% dead.
The implied odds you're talking about are better with calling low pp's for setmining. calling Axs for 'flushmining' is just horrible as you flop a flush(draw) way less often. And besides you're still behind in EV when you flop a flushdraw, whereas with a set you're way ahead.


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ferdhy5
Joined: 21.04.2014

Guys, thanks for your comments!


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Mozzek
Joined: 16.07.2016

Fold preflop. SB´s 3b is very very low, so why would we widen our calling range? I wouldn´t even 4bet there A2-5, because SB doesn´t seem to be active (=good=most likely not enough bluffs in his range). If he had 12% 3b as CO at this table has I would like the call. You can argue that there is a fish in BB, but he is short, if we hit our flush, we are not really getting full stack. As played, I would look at his cbet stats, if he cbets too much OTF and then steps back OTT I would call, but that´s unlikely as his stats seem to be on tighter side, so this is a fold OTF to me.


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