3bet KK Turn spot (Natural8)

He’s the aggressor on the flop and then you can better check/call I think to keep his range as wide as possible on the turn. I don’t think he would check to often after his raise on the flop.

Cheers,
SDK1987

Originally posted by SDK1987
He’s the aggressor on the flop and then you can better check/call...

I believe you missread the hand sir, we did 3bet preflop vs UTG, made a standard Cbet on the flop, which I believe is okish?
Vs raise I wouldnt fastplay, we do keep his range as wide as possible, now most people dont even open 44 and 55 UTG and most of players who do dont call 3bet with those even IP, he has no 2pair hands aswell, and who the hell would raise JJ? So his valuerange is heavily discounted in my eyes, rather looks like weirdly played few combos of draw+overs or something merged, I dont think its out of line to see hand like QQ in villains shoes.
That being said, I like bet/call OTF, lets see turn and let equities redistribute better. Once he bets on blank turn (I like his sizing btw, perfect for this situation given the runout and range vs range interaction) I believe shoving is best play - its not like we enjoy x/f on non heart river (if we b/c turn) and also, if he was merge raising on the flop, those hands will check behind river unimproved quite frequently (always?), therefore by x/c we would just loose value vs that part of range. Folding is out of question imo so yep... x/shove turn is fine imo.

One more thing I like to sidenote here, in situations where hero is OOP in last round of betting (mostly spots where we go bet bet bet OOP, in this spot technically speaking turn is last round of betting), there is missconception of equity needed in my opinion - we usualy say that we need >50% equity to valuebet, which is ok, but once you take into concideration fact that you are OOP, you dont need that much, because alternative is to check and let villain polarize with his range... So now we happen in situation where villain can play perfectly - we have to either choose to x/f vs villains bluffs and not pay off his valuerange, or pay off all his valuerange and catch some bluffs. Either way, if hes good we are indeferent and on top of that, we just loose value vs those merged hands that would call our bet but wont bet themselves (in our situation would be hand like QQ). Therefore in those situations we are better off just betting ourselves even if we dont have enough equity while called, get value from those merged hands and dont give villain chance to polarize on given street (and check behind merge that we beat) and play perfectly.

I like the play, I might consider folding at micros vs bigger sized bet OTT, but as he 1/3 it I couldn´t fold it, so I´d shove. The problem at micros is, that ppl don´t raise OTF as a bluff. The good thing is, that it´s J high flop, which leaves QQ in opps range, if it was Q high I would incline to fold more. But still at NL50 ppl might x/r with FD there, I don´t know.

I´m surprised he had AJ, but it kinda make sense as he´s not holding heart himself otherwise raising is very bad imo.

Hmmm...

Is that turn check-raise a bluff? After that sequence of events preflop and on flop, there is no way villain can call with worse value hands. Thus you do this only for bluff or you are somehow convinced he has a draw. I'd check-call, but I'd not be entirely happy with the situation. It looks like we are committed in any case, so all-in on turn isn't horrible, but I'd not do it.

Mandatory x/r OTT. If u plan on folding this here, you're A) folding basicly your entire range and B) not thinking ahead on the flop.

X/C is your worst option here. Our range is rather face-up so he won't go ballistic trying to bluff us off our hand and most of his bluffs still have alot of equity, hearts and probably Ax or 2p outs.

If he has a set, tough luck, better luck next time.

Deception is part of poker. But it is a mistake to believe that it is all of poker. Sometimes we simply have to play according to the strength of our hand. If the turn goes check-check, it is by no means a disaster. You can be happy to win a moderate pot with a moderate hand.