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Collusion in a small poker room - advice needed

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entertheblackwood
Joined: 13.08.2016

I've been playing at my local for 3 weeks now. I'm up a bit but am finding myself in a lot of marginal spots lately so I'm chalking my lack of progress to a bad run for now.

Regardless, there is a couple in this poker room that always sit together sb vs bb, husband, and wife. I've only played with them on two occasions. The first time I was somewhat suspicious of their play as they would often just check down when in a heads-up pot, but I never saw either of them with a great hand, so it wasn't impossible they could have just been cautious rather than in cahoots.

Well, that is out the window now. They are 100% colluding. The first trigger came when it folded to them. Hubby bets from the sb and wifey looks aghast as it is usually a chop in those situations. No problem so far. Then they say they will check it down as KK vs suited connectors could trigger the bad beat jackpot. I mean...ok. I was willing to roll with it. But even after t became obvious that no bad beat jackpot could happen they still checked it all the way down. The wife was appalled when I said that was weird. But fine, it was a unique circumstance I suppose, so I didn't make too much of it.

Then I started to notice what they were doing. Hubby would raise and she would call. If it only ended up with them heads up, it would be checked down. If it was multi-way, two of them could go against the other player. You would be forced to play against 4 cards instead of just 2 each time.

What finally cemented it was when Hubby checked down a nut flush against her. Like, ok. They aren't even trying to be subtle at this point.

It is a small card room and they are regs. They are friendly with others at the table and with some dealers.

How do I handle this situation? I want to keep playing here as the games are pretty soft and it is the only card room in my area. I don't want to make enemies of the regs as that won't help me win money. They will call me down and celebrate my losses. I want to be liked. It is so much easier to play poker when people like you. But I don't want to be forced to play against 4 cards instead of 2 every time I'm at a table with them.

Any advice?


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6 replies
ghaleon
Joined: 17.10.2007

I suppose in cash game live it's allowed to choose your position from available seats? In sng/mtt that should be always randomised through draw.

Any collusion/cheating related stuff would be best to be informed to people running the place. If we are talking of official poker room that is probably possible to do in anonymous way. If it's just unofficial cash game ring without anyone really running it then I would just ask of it directly in the table. Soft play and collusion are both big no no in tables as it affects lot of decisions. Even without collusion in multiway pots it does affect preflop strategy.

If players/management are ok with such activity then I would really question if its place you want to continue to support.


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Super Moderator
VorpalF2F
Joined: 02.09.2010

"If you don't trust them, don't play with them".

Originally posted by ghaleon
Any collusion/cheating related stuff would be best to be informed to people running the place. If we are talking of official poker room that is probably possible to do in anonymous way. If it's just unofficial cash game ring without anyone really running it then I would just ask of it directly in the table. Soft play and collusion are both big no no in tables as it affects lot of decisions. Even without collusion in multiway pots it does affect preflop strategy.

It is absolutely necessary to report your observations to the management. If they do nothing, then the next time you sit down to the table, and you see them soft-playing, call them on it if you want to start an argument. Personally, I would not play at a cash table when I knew that two of the players were that closely related. It is quite possible that they have signals that are private


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entertheblackwood
Joined: 13.08.2016

Thank you for the response.

Having been mostly a live tournament player for most of my poker career, some of the nuances of cash are lost on me.

In the pot where Hubby checked the nut flush, it was only him and Wifey in the pot. Technically, couldn't they argue that because nobody else was involved they didn't want to build a pot and lose more rake? I could foresee this being their defense if confronted. This would still be collusion as it would impact potential stack sizes against other players in future hands, right?


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Coach
Kyyberi
Joined: 09.07.2010

That is soft play. Collusion would be if they somehow signaled to each other information about their hole cards or what they are going to do, when there are other players in the pot.

They might have mutual bankroll, so in hu pots they just save the rake.

In most poker rooms soft play is forbidden in tournaments, in cash game it's a bit different as their hu pots don't really affect anyone else.

If they do that only in hu pots, I would just ignore it as it doesn't hurt you or anyone else. And in multiway pots you are always against multiple hands. If they are in the pot, there's also more money to be won. So as long as they don't share information, it shouldn't be that bad. At least you know that if they want to play a big pot when both are involved, it should be a strong hand? :)

If they are friendly and liked regs, it might hurt the games if they wouldn't show up.

If they have mutual bankrolls, pots wouldn't really affect future stack sizes that much. They could balance the stacks outside the table, or just leave if that wasn't allowed (if they don't like to play deep etc.).


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entertheblackwood
Joined: 13.08.2016

That is why I didn't make a fuss at the time. I wanted to make sure I had the nuances of cash correct before saying anything. In a tournament, I would have flagged it right away. I will still try and avoid tables they are on, but if I do play with them again I'll keep a close eye on what they do together when in pots. I'm also quite eager to stack one of them


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Coach
Kyyberi
Joined: 09.07.2010

In cash games there are often quite liberal rules in a hand if all participants agree on them, that are not allowed in tournaments. Some rooms have restrictions though. In cash games each hand is individual and players can reload stacks and in some rooms you can buy beverages etc with chips from the tables etc. You can run it multiple times (also affecting the possible stack depths), you can show hole cards in the middle of a hand, in some rooms if it's folded to blinds they just chop the blinds, or you can just agree on postflop that the board is dealt and no one bets/raises.

For some couples it's relationship +EV not to play for the win when in HU pots.


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