[Closed] K7o 0.12/0.25 FL SH

$0.12/$0.25 Blinds Fix Limit Holdem - *** 13 06 2009 21:06:57
Table Wilmington (Real Money)

Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 1: yvonn27 ( $2.78 )
Seat 5: Bergstajger ( $26.39 )
Seat 6: Fr88star ( $15.62 )
Seat 10: helu56 ( $19.78 )
yvonn27 posts small blind [$0.12]
Bergstajger posts big blind [$0.25]

** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Bergstajger [ K :heart:, 7 ]
Fr88star folds
helu56 calls [$0.25]
yvonn27 raises [$0.38]
Bergstajger calls [$0.25]
helu56 calls [$0.25]

** Dealing flop ** [ 8 :heart:, 2 :heart:, T ]
yvonn27 bets [$0.25]
Bergstajger calls [$0.25]
helu56 folds

** Dealing turn ** [ K ]
yvonn27 bets [$0.50]
Bergstajger calls [$0.50]

** Dealing river ** [ T ]
yvonn27 checks
Bergstajger bets [$0.50]
yvonn27 calls [$0.50]

** Summary **

Hello!

I would fold this preflop since yvonn27 raises into one limper (which gives him a stronger range than if he open raised) and K7o doesn't do very well in 3-way pots.

I would fold it on flop if I played it because The pot is just so small and you have very few outs here (3 for K and additional 1.5 for the BDFD and 0.25 outs for BDSD, you'd need about 9.5:1 pot odds to call here which I don't think you're getting). Floating flop is an option if you were HU, but 3-way your equity is just too bad here.

On the turn you pretty much hit the nutz for your hand so you should raise it, you're beating hands like AT, flush draws etc. as well as A high and you can easily raise here and bet river.

Regards,

Primzi

I called accordingly to bronze BB defense hand chart that suggests calling K2o and raising with K8 to a SB raise. I would surely fold this on SB or any other position.

Other moves are dearly noted and will be taken into consideration in similar situations. Thank you.

Hello!

As far as I know blind defence means that someone open raises and you defend your blind. If there are more than 2 people in the hand, you should adjust your hands - if there are more people in the pot, the high cards lose equity and suited connectors + pocket pairs gain equity. Also if the person didn't open raise his range is different than his open raising range would be which means playing according to that chart is wrong. You will learn how to play better preflop from the gold articles, but let me show you what I mean anyways:

BU limps, so SB's raising range (according to the bronze chart) should be 66+, A5s+, KTs+, QJs+, A8o+, KJo+ and if you think about it, K7o doesn't do very well against these hands. In best case, you have about 45% equity(vs 66), vs all other hands you have even worse equity. And then there is BU who might have some suited cards or a baby A and your hand has pretty bad playability so it's quite unlikely that you will win this pot. You can expect to win the pot if you hit K and no A is on board or if you hit two pair, and chances for that aren't very high so folding preflop is the best option. Sticking to the basic rule of playing suited connectors and pocket pairs in multiway pots and high cards in HU pots will do you best :).

Regards,

Primzi

You know I was already thinking about this but couldn't find any firm conclusion in the article. I will tighten up my range with callers infront and with PT3 reads that should improve the situation until the gold rank.

I did a little thinking today about this situation. Suppose there are a lot of callers after the raise...

Poker calculator tells me I have 25% chance of winning against 3 opponents with K7o and since I already payed BB I only have to invest 1/2 ob the total bet which gives me 1:8 pot odds which is more than enough to call as I need only 1:4.

True, raiser would probably had a very strong hand raising from early position, but even with taking that into consideration and lowering odds for wining to let's say 20% or even 15% that is still an easy call.

Or have I missed something?

Umm I think you probably messed up the hand ranges a bit :|. Have you entered a random hand or did you specify the ranges? I think you should be pretty dominated here ♠.

Oh, you used the poker odds calculator thing? That thing is useless... It tells you how likely you are to win this pot if everyone had 100 VPIP. Stupid Slovenians don't know shit about poker -.- Now really, I strongly suggest using the pokerstrategy equilator instead, defining the handranges and making the calculations based on them. Then the results should be way more accurate :).

Ok, here's what Equilator says:

Equity Win Tie Loss Hand
Player 1: 32,700% 31,359% 2,928% 65,713% 66+, A8s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KJo+

Player 2: 24,912% 23,487% 3,091% 73,422% 44+, A2s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, A2o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo, T9o, 98o

Player 3: 24,951% 23,528% 3,086% 73,386% 44+, A2s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, A2o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo, T9o, 98o

Player 4: 17,436% 16,928% 1,174% 81,898% Kh7d

I put MP2 on standard ORC chart raising range and two callers on hands they might call on these limits - all aces, broadway cards, 44+ and some mediocre connectors. I get 17,5%.

Hello!

Now the example you've given now differs from the actual hand a lot... In this case we have a raises and 2 callers, in that one we've had a limper and a raiser. So you can't really compare these situations. I guess the equity you're getting there is close to what you've calculated, even though the ranges aren't accurate (people won't call with AA and will rather call many more suited cards at your limit etc.). But I guess it pretty much evens out so let's say that's the correct equity. BUT as mentioned before, the EV of your hand depends on playability as well - that means that your EV might be negative even though the equity seems to be good enough. But I won't go into the details because I think this is way too advanced for your knowledge level at the moment (as far as I know you've been using the basic SHC just a few days ago), so I suggest that you stick to the rule of thumb - play suited connectors and pocket pairs in multiway pots and play high cards in HU. Also you won't need advanced theories until 1/2 or 2/4 and it'll take you some time to get there. I suggest you to focus on studying bronze and silver articles, when you study all of them and reach gold member status and read the articles on advanced preflop, then you can ask me or Cirith questions if anything is unclear - I think I am not allowed to sum up the gold articles here as the access to them has to be earned ;). Also if we go to that advanced preflop play, we have to take into consideration PFR of raiser, VPIP of callers, isolation raise handrange in your hand example, etc... Really no need to go into all that right now as it would just confuse you ;). Oh, and you should also take into consideration that if you play these hands you will often misplay them postflop due to your lack of knowledge (as we can see you were pretty confused) and therefore it will definetely be -EV to play them ;).

Regards,

Primzi

Of course the situation differs a lot, I wrote that in the start. As I stated - it's a hypothetical situation that in theory can be played and I wanted an opinion on that.

The reason why I am asking many questions is that I'm a type of person that likes to know what's "behind". It helps me understanding theory and acting the right way in certain situations.

As for my play - since I started with SH I use bronze silver ORC for SH preflop play. I stuck to SHC in FR games because of two reasons: first one being that someone in this forum once suggested that it's better not even to use the silver advance strategy on microlimits and secondly - I was doing really well with it.

In the gold section there is an expert preflop article. Based on these calulation all other charts were created. Currently there is a complete SB chart in progress which may be usefull for BB decision as well.

The problem with K7o (I think it's already been said) is that you will often lose a lot postflop when you finally hit your hand. Because of that it's best to simply fold these mediocre hands if it's a close decision.

Ok.

And I would just like to say Hi to crying_horse and thank him for the 15$ he contributed to Slovenian community today as I know he is reading this section. ♠_thumbsup: