[Closed] $.50/$1 SH AJo river play 3oak when FD completes

Hello!

I like c/c on the river more for bluff induce purposes rather than value betting since you're value betting vs. very few hands (worse Ax, 7x, pocket pairs) which will most likely bet anyways if you check behind + some busted draws might bet and you won't pay off a flush too much. It does seem kind of a paranoid decision but it's more +EV than bet/calling. It depends if the villain likes to bluff river or not though, so if you have any reads act according to them - if he likes to bluff river c/c is perfect, if he doesn't you have to b/c.

Regards,

Primzi

Thanks Primzi. I only had a dozen or so hands v villian and was new to the table so no reads.

See that BDL? I don't feel so bad now - Primzi's got my back!

BTW - how often would you expect to see 77?

Looks more like AA to me to be honest

Originally posted by Primzi
Looks more like AA to me to be honest

Yeah, the old fifth A up the sleeve trick!

Originally posted by Waiboy
BTW - how often would you expect to see 77?

If I would judge by my yesterday late night session on Pacific I would say:

- callers always have monsters
- raisers hit bottom pair on river in the best case

♦

bet/call is bet line imo, only another ace would bet that river if you check.
Ff you calculate bet/call is more +EV than check/call.

Imo, bluff induce here is worthless here if you check. Why would the opponent bluff here if he knows that I check because I'm afraid of the flush and I would still call if he bets!!

Edit: I wanna see what cirith thinks...

Well feel free to post the EV calculations... you won't gain money from b/cing than from c/cing vs unknown IMO.

Im with zivkoleo on this one , the river is more or less a blank and i dont think its a good spot for bluff inducing i rather bet and hope i get called by some lower pair, worse ace, maybe even K high.

I dont wanna see him checking behind some worse hand that would call my bet but maybe wouldnt bet if i check .
Also flush draw is a small part of his range so i wouldnt be too worried.

And i think if we assume he raises all worse Ax hands on river or even some K7,K8 hands sometimes that the bet/call line has higher EV then check/call.

A couple of donk questions.

Why do we consider villian raises all worse Ax hands on river when he's not raised flop or turn?

Why do we consider the A♣ a blank when it completes the flush draw? Surely the flush draw completeing makes villian less likely to raise anything but a better hand and more likely to fold weak pairs because what do they now beat other than a total bluff - assuming pairs like 99+ raise pre flop?

Don't we get one more bet from worse Ax hands whether we bet/call or check/call, but we tend to only get raised by better hands? (given that A2 - A9 hands are only part of their range).

Well i see alot of fishes playing their weaker aces rather passively and then raising when hitting the trips and since they dont really try to put you on a specific hand or ranges they usually just look at their own hand strength thats why i meant the river A is a blank but maybe its not the best term.

But anyway the equity u have in this hand is huge so i think check/calling is really bad here and the river doesnt really affect it. You can equilate it but i would guess it doesnt change even for 5%.

Ofc since we have no stats or reads its a bit hard to guess what his cold calling range is and which Ax hands are in his range but still i think the more important thing here is that we get called by a ton of worse hands that might check behind (esp. if we take ur presumption that they are also afraid of the flush draw completing) ,and not so much which(better or worse) hands will reraise us.

Originally posted by Primzi
Hello!

I like c/c on the river more for bluff induce purposes rather than value betting since you're value betting vs. very few hands (worse Ax, 7x, pocket pairs) which will most likely bet anyways if you check behind + some busted draws might bet and you won't pay off a flush too much. It does seem kind of a paranoid decision but it's more +EV than bet/calling. It depends if the villain likes to bluff river or not though, so if you have any reads act according to them - if he likes to bluff river c/c is perfect, if he doesn't you have to b/c.
Regards,

Primzi

I still think this is by far the best choice.

I agree with what was said before that fish will just call down their weak aces and then raise once they see that they've hit trips because they tend to play the strength of their own hand and not consider what hands their opponents may be playing.

Small pairs, pocket pairs, A rag, flush draws, broken draws, K hi and slowplayed monsters (not limited to sets but also 2 pairs) are all potentially part of a loose fishes range.

I was playing on the same table as Waiboy and my read on that guy is that he is a loose passive fish.

If he checks vs an unknown some hopeless hands might bet out (K hi and busted draws) but small pairs and pocket pairs and counterfeited 2 pairs will mostly check behind. A rag, flushes and monsters will bet for sure. Even vs an unknown this is not a great spot for a bluff induce imo. but vs a loose passive guy it is a terrible spot for a bluff induce.

Waiboy: Why are you talking about getting 3bet? The worst he can do is raise.

I think the money he loses against flushes will on average be offset by the money he wins from ace rag. Then, what you have to ask yourself is whether you can gain more from valuebetting vs weak made hands or inducing bluffs. It seems there are a lot more hands that would call than bluff, especially vs a passive guy.

Originally posted by BDL
I was playing on the same table as Waiboy and my read on that guy is that he is a loose passive fish.

...but vs a loose passive guy it is a terrible spot for a bluff induce.

Cool... but ofc I have no reads as only around 10/15 hands on villian at that point.

Waiboy: Why are you talking about getting 3bet? The worst he can do is raise.

True! Just a hangover from the actual hand where I was thinking about being raised but for some reason this translated as a three bet. This is, of course, because I don't know what I'm doing.

You have 3 aces! I need to judge hands more often!

This is bet/call all the way to the freaking bank. Especially at this limit where unknown = less than optimally aggressive fish.

:DConfirmed:D