[Closed] NL200 set 99 IP wet board

Looks pretty standard. U are a little deeper and want to get money in on drawy bo. If u make it much smaller then he can even call profitable draws.

Bet $21-$23 on the flop for value.

Once he checkraises it sucks to 3bet: Imo we would always call our draws here IP because we have position and can play well on the turn, additionally we don't have much foldequity.
So by 3betting we basically tell him we have a set.

Therefore even though the board is drawy we can play well with our set IP by calling the checkraise.
There will be $115 in the pot on the turn with ~230-240 left, so we'll still be able to get stacks in comfortably even if he checks to us.

The plan is to get it in on any non- turn (I doubt he checkraises straightdraws w/o FD on the flop because he thinks he only has 6 outs).
If the turn actually is a we're still IP and can play according to odds&outs.

Originally posted by Bierbaer

Once he checkraises it sucks to 3bet: Imo we would always call our draws here IP because we have position and can play well on the turn, additionally we don't have much foldequity.
So by 3betting we basically tell him we have a set.

Really? I had following reasons to raise

1) If he has a FD (like A :diamond:x or SC :diamond:) he is willing to invest all his stack on the flop whereas he may be carefull post flop.

2) If I have a FD myself, I will definitely raise here. (I have fold equity and want to ship it in as long as I can have around 50% equity). Similarly if I have QQ-KK I would probably ship it on flop here.

3) If he has an overpair, I may miss value by 3betting, but he can go broke just for the reason that all the flushes are raising on flop pretty aggresive.

---> If you just call here, how can you balance your raises with FD?

Or how would you play these hands here?

1) FD
2) QQ,KK,AA
3) SET - you are always calling
4) TPTK or JJ - I guess you are folding

Thx

Originally posted by Cornie4ever

Originally posted by Bierbaer

Once he checkraises it sucks to 3bet: Imo we would always call our draws here IP because we have position and can play well on the turn, additionally we don't have much foldequity.
So by 3betting we basically tell him we have a set.

Really? I had following reasons to raise

1) If he has a FD (like A :diamond:x or SC :diamond:) he is willing to invest all his stack on the flop whereas he may be carefull post flop.
That's my point, I think he won't invest his entire stack. That is because we only 3bet sets in this spot, therefore his equity is around 25% which means he has to fold to the 3bet. Furthermore the times he misses on the turn he might just bet anyway because he's the aggressor and wants to keep up the aggression.

2) If I have a FD myself, I will definitely raise here. (I have fold equity and want to ship it in as long as I can have around 50% equity). Similarly if I have QQ-KK I would probably ship it on flop here.
You would 3bet this on the flop with a FD? What do you think his checkraisingrange is? What about his shovingrange?

3) If he has an overpair, I may miss value by 3betting, but he can go broke just for the reason that all the flushes are raising on flop pretty aggresive.

---> If you just call here, how can you balance your raises with FD?

That's the point, I don't 3bet my FDs in this spot. Why would I, his life is a lot harder when we call and utilize the fact that we have position on him.

Or how would you play these hands here?

1) FD
call
2) QQ,KK,AA
call
3) SET - you are always calling
call
4) TPTK or JJ - I guess you are folding
call
Thx

Especially when you look at hands like JJ+ /TP you see one more reason not to 3bet: you cannot balance the 3bet with those medium strength hands, so by 3betting you not only tell him you have a set but also that you have a weak hand the times you call.

Originally posted by Bierbaer

Originally posted by Cornie4ever

Originally posted by Bierbaer

Or how would you play these hands here?

1) FD
call
2) QQ,KK,AA
call
3) SET - you are always calling
call
4) TPTK or JJ - I guess you are folding
call
Thx

Especially when you look at hands like JJ+ /TP you see one more reason not to 3bet: you cannot balance the 3bet with those medium strength hands, so by 3betting you not only tell him you have a set but also that you have a weak hand the times you call.

Thank you. Can I please expand this for the turn/river play. I will try to write down your plan for turn / river to make sure that I get it right. (I was really playing these spots in aggresive way recently, basically raising all FDs and sets, and would like to move to more EV+ play style).

1) FD
call flop. On turn (i) if we hit the flush and he bets, we raise to protect our flush. If he does not bet, then we bet ourselves around 60% pot. (ii) if the flush did not hit and he checks, we take a free card and check behind. If he bets, we fold or call for odds / implied odds.
2) QQ,KK,AA
call flop. On turn if (i) third comes, we definitely play pot control just folding/calling depending on if we have a re-draw and if we put him on lower pair. (ii) If no comes and he bets, we call again IP for pot control. If he does not bet, we should generally bet turn to protect and get free SD.
3) SET - you are always calling
call flop. On turn if (i) third comes, we play according to odds - most likely call on turn and revaluate on river depending on what we put him on. If he does not bet, we bet to protect vs his FD with 1 and also to balance our bets with FD. (ii) if there is no diamond, we call his bet again on turn only again? Like slowplaying and bluff induce. Or would you raise on turn already? If he checks turn, we bet like 60% pot.

4) TPTK or JJ - I guess you are folding
play similarly as overpair, but even more carefull, as we beat less combinations, our equity is lower against his range. This implies higher percentage of folds and less calls.

.

Originally posted by Cornie4ever
1) FD
call flop. On turn (i) if we hit the flush and he bets, we raise to protect our flush. If he does not bet, then we bet ourselves around 60% pot.

In case he bets I'd just call. This because I'd also not raise with TP/sets/overpairs.
(ii) if the flush did not hit and he checks, we take a free card and check behind. If he bets, we fold or call for odds / implied odds.
I'd bet if he checks on a missed turn. Since he checks he doesn't have a strong hand so I want to put pressure on him. The plan is to bet turn and probably bet any river in case he check-calls.

2) QQ,KK,AA
call flop. On turn if (i) third comes, we definitely play pot control just folding/calling depending on if we have a re-draw and if we put him on lower pair.
Yes.
(ii) If no comes and he bets, we call again IP for pot control. If he does not bet, we should generally bet turn to protect and get free SD.
Correct.
3) SET - you are always calling
call flop. On turn if (i) third comes, we play according to odds - most likely call on turn and revaluate on river depending on what we put him on. If he does not bet, we bet to protect vs his FD with 1 and also to balance our bets with FD.
Yep.
(ii) if there is no diamond, we call his bet again on turn only again? Like slowplaying and bluff induce. Or would you raise on turn already? If he checks turn, we bet like 60% pot.
With no diamond on the turn I'd shove. At this point the pot is so big that we're usually happy to take it down and he is oftentimes committed anyway.
4) TPTK or JJ - I guess you are folding
In the scenario above, probably. I just realized that I'd probably even fold those on the flop even though I said I'd call in a former post.
play similarly as overpair, but even more carefull, as we beat less combinations, our equity is lower against his range. This implies higher percentage of folds and less calls.
Exactly, the chance that he checkraises with hands like QQ+ probably makes it a bit too thin to continue with TP type hands. So even though it looks like they play similar to QQ+ or KK+ there is a significant equity difference because the range the opponent checkraises isn't too big.
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good stuff, very helpful. thank you

You're welcome :).