Do you think it is possible for a player to play a very basic NL Holdem ring game strategy and turn a profit without applying odds and outs post flop? For those who know the startig hand strategy, understand the imortance of position, grasp and understand the concept of odds and outs, but struggle to perform the calculations whilst playing. Your thoughts? Also do you think a player who has never been very fast at calculations has an honest or realistic chance of getting "game fast" at calculation?? If so what is the best way to practice/study? Thanks.
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Most odds and outs situations occur so often that you can just memorize them. eg open ended straight draw is 8 outs, gutshot is 4 etc.
Software like StarsHelper can even show you the pot odds and % needed to call,
Originally posted by metza
Most odds and outs situations occur so often that you can just memorize them. eg open ended straight draw is 8 outs, gutshot is 4 etc.Software like StarsHelper can even show you the pot odds and % needed to call,
Thanks for the reply. Cool picture of Durr ha ha. Yeah Ican do the maths after usually but struggle mid hand if I need to discount outs for example. Guess it is just percieverance and practice needed. Still would like an answer to the no math strategy question from someone please.
I don't know if you can make decent winnings without odds and outs but you should try to understand that stuff. if your head calculation skills are bad then use the windows calculator to calculate your pot odds.
Im a micro mass table player (I play 24 tables most of the time) and I use also often the windows calculator to calculate my pot odds even while I play ^^ that's sounds maybe funny but it's the truth my head calculation skills are bad :-(
And how metza said already you can memorize the required odds most of the time go in the strategy article section here and then click on poker basics and check out the odds/outs chart. In the beginning it's maybe not so easy but you should practice that stuff.
Originally posted by Klabautermann
I don't know if you can make decent winnings without odds and outs but you should try to understand that stuff. if your head calculation skills are bad then use the windows calculator to calculate your pot odds.Im a micro mass table player (I play 24 tables most of the time) and I use also often the windows calculator to calculate my pot odds even while I play ^^ that's sounds maybe funny but it's the truth my head calculation skills are bad :-(
And how metza said already you can memorize the required odds most of the time go in the strategy article section here and then click on poker basics and check out the odds/outs chart. In the beginning it's maybe not so easy but you should practice that stuff.
Yeah, I think what im going to try is a step by step aproach. Maybe get a pad and pen and deal down two hole cards and a flop and work out the outs, deal after deal for an hour a night until I feel I have internalised it more or less, then move on to calculating the odds, then onto pot odds and so on. Mabe make some flash cards with the type of draw on the front and the odds and outs on the back to test myself or with a friend. I admit to a half arsed approach to study over my years here. And I wonder why I dont improve?? Lol. Hard work and committment from this day forward!
If you need help with the math stuff you can give me ur Skype name if you want. I can give you also a simpel game plan that will work for the lowest limits.
If you are interested then accept my friend request and send me your Skype name.
for sure you can beat it
i dont know how to calculate odds and i am beating NL100
and at maths i suck so bad that the only thing at poker i can count is profit ♦
Originally posted by Treizee
for sure you can beat it
i dont know how to calculate odds and i am beating NL100
and at maths i suck so bad that the only thing at poker i can count is profit ♦
But I guess u know how to calculate Pot Odds.
Pot Odds are not the same like Odds.
Some of the best poker players in the world don't know basic odds math. Even Phil Ivey has been known to make brain farts on betting odds if you just watch High Stakes Poker
no i dont know how to count pot odds i am not sure what is it i am a big multitabler so even if i knew how to do it i wouldnt have enough time to calculate it but i always know how much outs i have 
some players are just making low stakes too complicated 
Keep these rules of thumb in mind:
facing a half pot bet you need 25% chance to win
facing a full pot bet you need 33% chance to win
Facing a bet of anywhere between those two (most cases) you need ~30% chance to win
Rarely will you be able to calculate your chances of winning to within 5% accuracy so just keep these things in mind and you don't need to really calculate anything in game.
Next is your odds of drawing, which is only a small part of the story but it is still important:
number of outs * 2 = chance of hitting on the next street.
number of outs * 4 = chance of hitting on either the turn or the river.
You rarely get odds to draw to hands like an OESD or a FD, but you then consider implied odds which is hard to calculate both in-game and away from the tables. This just comes with experience in most situations, but don't overvalue it: consider how obvious your draw is - bad players love to shut down when an obvious draw comes in because they have MUBS.
It's nice to sit there and learn to calculate things perfectly but that is practically useless if you spend so much effort in game doing these calculations by the time you even get on to making your actual decision you've tanked down and have 1 second to act. Just simplify it.
Short answer - you can.
Longer one - it's as simple as multiplication and you will win more.
