Skip to forum
Notifications
Clear all

AK, TPTK, river decision

16 Posts
8 Users
1 Reactions
1,847 Views
BelligerentBird
Joined: 08.08.2016

PokerStars - $0.05 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: 128 BB (VPIP: 17.31, PFR: 14.10, 3Bet Preflop: 3.34, Hands: 2,148)
UTG+1: 93.2 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)
MP: 80 BB (VPIP: 17.16, PFR: 11.53, 3Bet Preflop: 3.79, Hands: 374)
Hero (MP+1): 101.4 BB
CO: 120.2 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 50.00, Hands: 15)
BTN: 117.2 BB (VPIP: 10.26, PFR: 5.13, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 39)
SB: 264.4 BB (VPIP: 11.83, PFR: 7.89, 3Bet Preflop: 1.17, Hands: 793)
BB: 64.8 BB (VPIP: 13.04, PFR: 8.70, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 24)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has K♣ A♠

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 4 BB, fold, BTN calls 4 BB, fold, BB calls 3 BB

Flop: (12.4 BB, 3 players) 5♣ K♦ J♠
BB checks, Hero bets 8.8 BB, BTN calls 8.8 BB, fold

Turn: (30 BB, 2 players) 3♥
Hero bets 19 BB, BTN calls 19 BB

River: (68 BB, 2 players) 9♠
Hero bets 29 BB, BTN calls 29 BB

Hi guys! Opp is pretty much unknown. My plan is to play bet/fold river. Do you think it is +EV to bet OTR in this spot?


Reply
Quote
15 replies
Mozzek
Joined: 16.07.2016

I think your line is ok. He might call there worse kings imo. How to play R depends on villain. Does he call with worse hands (is he calling station?). If not, c/f OTR is the way to go. Definitely make a not after this hand :).


Reply
Quote
SuperChompa
Joined: 26.07.2016

hi ! does it work better for you opening 4bb? What is your strategy regarding that, like early 4bb, middle pos 3bb and late 2bb?


Reply
Quote
la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013

This looks fine.


Reply
Quote
BelligerentBird
Joined: 08.08.2016

Originally posted by SuperChompa
hi ! does it work better for you opening 4bb? What is your strategy regarding that, like early 4bb, middle pos 3bb and late 2bb?

I just always open 4bb from all positions. I know it's probably not the best play, but pokerstategy's articles for beginners reccomend this sizing and for now I stick to that :)
I think for NL2 and NL5 it works fine, and on higher limits I'll definitely have to make it smaller.


Reply
Quote
SuperChompa
Joined: 26.07.2016

Ah ok :) me I do 3x by default. 2.5x from cut off and 2x from button.


Reply
Quote
la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013

I guess that 4bb all around works well for beginners since I think the suggested ranges are quite tight, which is good when you are not yet so comfortable playing postflop. Smaller sizings especially from late position are good since they allow you to play a lot more hands, but then you have to know how to play those :)

I usually open 2.5bb from BTN and SB but 3bb from other positions. Sometimes when I see someone is folding way too much to steals I start opening 2bb with 100% range.


Reply
Quote
SuperChompa
Joined: 26.07.2016

Yeah me with 2x from button I get almost the same folds that I had with 3x. And in case I have to fold to 3 bet it's 1bb more for me.


Reply
Quote
MyFloXyBabY
Joined: 15.02.2010

Without much infos I like that value thin river, I'd have bet a little less but it's in the good range of sizing in my opinion.
Going for the x/c of a reasonable amount could be pretty much ok too I suppose, but there's very few draws that busted here and we want to value hands like QK that probably won't stab the river when checked to so better to bet/fold something along 1/3 of the pot.


Reply
Quote
YohanN7
Joined: 15.06.2009

Raising big pre is a two-edged sword. It creates big pots, especially combined with 2/3 flop and turn bets when OOP. This brings you close to the situation where you go broke with TPTK.

The river bet has two purposes, the least purpose is betting for value. It prevents some bluffs (you can't call a pot sized bet here, probably not even a 75% bet), and possibly costs you less if you are behind (compared to check-call, he'll usually bet more than 45% if for value). So, it is okay played.

As a general rule, you need a slightly stronger hand to check-call versus unknown than to bet-fold. But It's not fool-proof, and reads (and particular boards) over-ride. This particular board is not favoring a check-call (one draw hit and the AQ draw shouldn't be around after the turn bet).


Reply
Quote
BelligerentBird
Joined: 08.08.2016

Originally posted by YohanN7
Raising big pre is a two-edged sword. It creates big pots...

But what is wrong with playing big pots when my range is usually stronger than villain's range?


Reply
Quote
la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013

I think there is basically nothing wrong. When you play with tight ranges and play big pots you just don't have as much room to maneuver and your options might be limited on later streets. That beginner strategy is easier to play and there shouldn't be nothing wrong with it but it just might not be the most profitable strategy.


Reply
Quote
YohanN7
Joined: 15.06.2009

Originally posted by BelligerentBird

Originally posted by YohanN7
Raising big pre is a two-edged sword. It creates big pots...

But what is wrong with playing big pots when my range is usually stronger than villain's range?

You win the small pots and lose the big ones against good players if you aren't careful. Here I am not talking about the pots size on the flop or even after flop betting. I mean the final pot. This is so because a tight player is easy to read, and the problem gets worse if OOP and the deeper you are.

To illustrate, suppose you play deep have AA and raise it up big OOP and get called by the (likewise deep) button. The flop is 4♣:5♣:5♦:. You bet 80% and he either calls or raises. Now you are in tremendous trouble. He knows you didn't hit that flop, and it is impossible to outsmart someone consistently when out of position, so routinely either folding or calling down here are both recipes for disaster.

Same situation, but the flop is A♥:Q♣:2♠:. This time, the button is pretty unlikely to call even a 25% suck bet. He knows your range loves that flop. See the problem?

Playing on a short stack (SSS) when playing tight is provably advantageous, but boring:)


Reply
Quote
msp3101
Joined: 19.04.2016

Your play looks sound. You can sleep easy.


Reply
Quote
BelligerentBird
Joined: 08.08.2016

Originally posted by YohanN7

Originally posted by BelligerentBird

Originally posted by YohanN7
Raising big pre is a two-edged sword. It creates big pots...

But what is wrong with playing big pots when my range is usually stronger than villain's range?

You win the small pots and lose the big ones against good players if you aren't careful...

Thank you for this explanation! Good point!


Reply
Quote
KingKlaas
Joined: 13.12.2008

Isn't it better to make smaller valuebets here on this pretty drawless board?
Around half-pot seems enough too me..
On the river villain can have his OESD made with 10Q..


Reply
Quote