KK facing aggression from position in position

12bb preflop, as played on this texture I prefer a check, as played without K:h shove (7-8, Q-J are bad cards).
As played call turn

Originally posted by pisiattu
12bb preflop, as played on this texture I prefer a check, as played without K:h shove (7-8, Q-J are bad cards).
As played call turn

A 4x 3bet seems big enough I think. Even out of position. Why you like to 3bet even more?

Cheers,
SDK1987

From bb with a polarized range I use a big size like when I overbet on the river.

My2cents

villain had 22% won at showdown. On the other hand, we had only 330 hands

Thats a small sample, would be more important to know out of how many hands he has won/lost in SD.

The sizing preflop doesnt really matter I mean, if you are playing against a stronger reg, I would go bigger to play less often OOP, dont mind even 5x then.
4x as a default OOP seems ok to me.

Postflop, its close and pretty pool/villain dependent. Whats his VPIP/PFR? Against a recreational, I am calling here all day. Vs a reg, I might find a fold OTT based on pool tendencies.

to me this is a clear 3betshove OTF. it's not going to be a real leak and nitting here will maybe start bad habbits that will inhibit progression.

the question for me is what our checking/betting strategy is on this flop - how does our range hit it?

Originally posted by Kruppe
to me this is a clear 3betshove OTF.

Well, I think you dont have a general answer and its sort of pool dependent. From my experience I dont think 3b shove OTF is gonna be +ev against an avg reg. By 3b shoving, we are gonna fold out his mergy raising hands such as JJ-QQ,KTs,ATs and get called by mostly sets, T9s,87s and few combodraws and nutflushdraws (which are appr. 50/50).

it's not going to be a real leak and nitting here will maybe start bad habbits that will inhibit progression.

Can you please elaborate more on this?

the question for me is what our checking/betting strategy is on this flop - how does our range hit it?

Yeah, thats a good question to ask, I would probably start with: whats our preflop 3betting range? From that point we can construct our flop cbetting range. Seeing how his range hits this board may help us as well (we can use his VPIP/PFR and fold to 3b for a more precise approximation).
I would say that on these kind of boards he has got the nut advantage and we might have slightly range advantage due to KK and AA. So I think we are supposed to bet larger on this flop and less frequently (havent checked it in solver though).
If you 3b 99-TT preflop, you can prob make some arguments for range betting with smaller sizing.

When I see his raise size OTF I would like to fold right there vs that bad player with 25 WSD and if he is from the passive side it is really for the best to overfold exploitively! The most lately I would fold OTT in this spot vs that player and that size! Even if he is a good aggressive player we will not be happy to call OTT that is actually very close to BE decision,, but vs passive we will get REKT in here!

Originally posted by vengeance77
When I see his raise size OTF I would like to fold right there vs that bad player with 25 WSD and if he is from the passive side it is really for the best to overfold exploitively!

I suppose the WSD means Won Money at Showdown. Which usually should be around 49-54. The less he wins in showdown, the more he is calling station or bluffy in this case I would say its both to some extent.

I think you thought its actually WTSD. In that case I think you would be right:)

However, agree that in general its a turn fold:) The reason why I would still call on the flop in a vacuum is that some players may thin value raise worse - AT,JJ or QQ. Moreover, against his T9s we have got 27.53% equity and we do need only ~ 21.5%

22% won at showdown 330 hands probably only means that villain is not running well so far
i don't think we ever fold the blank turn, definitely not if villain can have some merge raises. if villain is raising something like AT on the flop, he's probably jamming it at some fair frequency on the turn...