KK turn decision

I would check-jam on flop, if villain is agro.

Betting on the flop while you probably still are ahead is correct, I dislike the idea about check jam there because we don't want to give a free card and see an ace and villain still can have 88 and JJ in his range and if we check jam we are very likely playing against sets only, it would be overplay.

On the turn I think maybe the best option is to check fold. When villain calls your 4bet pre he has JJ and maybe even 88 in his range and I see a lot of Ax hands too. And I'm not sure how often will QQ turn his hand into a bluff when A comes and you check. So overall when you check and villain bets you most likely are behind. It is nasty spot and very difficult to give up kings but sometimes we have to.

Well, I would bet again OTT. If it´s true what u say, villain will cal u with worse hands :).

We have around 2/3 pot effectively left so if we choose to bet on the turn should we just shove?
Villain might be fishy and might call even 4bets wider but that also means he has more Ax hands. And will he call a shove on A high board with something like QJ or QQ or any other weaker hand?

Sounds too much of a gamble to me and we can't really think he is a huge maniac when we have only a small sample and he has 3bet only twice and has a huge vpip/pfr gap which suggests he is more passive at least pre flop.

You really expect him to have Ax otf? He could've had AA in which case you were beaten anyway, it leaves QQ and JJ, i'd recommend checking and see how he acts, you might come across a bluff.

If villain is maniac-ish he can call pre with some AJ and AK might call flop too. And why wouldn't he call flop with ATs+ that has BDFD and BDSD..
So yea I think he might have some Ax after calling OTF.

If he's fishy : NL2 you could see a lot of AJ overvalue their hand preflop > Aj still in his range.
But IMO here; Ax or not in his range doesnt really matter.
There's not really much hand that we beat who call flop and where we can continue here : I can only see KJ and QQ.
So x/f would be my line here OOP (if IP and maniac maybe I could call a low bet OTT to fvsbet OTR).

I think you are slightly to deep (about 70 bb left), even against a maniac, to proceed on turn. This is the deciding factor for me. With ordinary (100 bb) stacks, leaving about 45 bb, it is a more difficult decision vs maniac.

Betting on the flop while you probably still are ahead is correct, I dislike the idea about check jam there because we don't want to give a free card and see an ace and villain still can have 88 and JJ in his range and if we check jam we are very likely playing against sets only, it would be overplay.

That's how a nit/reg thinks. He will never have 33 in that spot, in my opinion only 88 and JJ, 8J ?? no? So how can you say that check-jam is a overplay ? Villain is gonna call with AJ, KJs, 9Ts, QQ maybe AK if he's a gambler. Our member said that villain might be a potential maniac therefor I will let him bet if he checks-back fair enough I will play a small pot with him.
Anyway that's only my opinion.

Well, if he is a maniac why couldn't he flat 4bets with 33
And it is still a 4bet pot. Even maniac is going to have quite strong range that has some Ax in it too. If he can call our shove with AK AQ, that is not good.
I'm far from nit but I just like to keep my money ♦

The line I took was:
PokerStars - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 100 BB
Hero (UTG): 167 BB
UTG+1: 100 BB (VPIP: 7.14, PFR: 7.14, 3Bet Preflop: 20.00, Hands: 14)
MP: 100 BB (VPIP: 28.57, PFR: 9.52, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 21)
MP+1: 65.5 BB (VPIP: 42.11, PFR: 42.11, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 19)
CO: 128.5 BB (VPIP: 65.22, PFR: 21.74, 3Bet Preflop: 8.33, Hands: 23)
BTN: 101.5 BB (VPIP: 13.04, PFR: 4.35, 3Bet Preflop: 7.69, Hands: 23)
SB: 118 BB (VPIP: 30.43, PFR: 17.39, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 23)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K♥ K♣

Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, fold, CO raises to 6 BB, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 20 BB, CO calls 14 BB

Flop: (41.5 BB, 2 players) 8♣ 3♦ J♠
Hero bets 36 BB, CO calls 36 BB

Turn: (113.5 BB, 2 players) A♠
Hero bets 111 BB and is all-in, CO calls 72.5 BB and is all-in

River: (258.5 BB, 2 players) 7♠

Hero shows K♥ K♣ (One Pair, Kings)
(Pre 88%, Flop 87%, Turn 75%)
CO shows 8♠ K♠ (Flush, Ace High)
(Pre 12%, Flop 13%, Turn 25%)
CO wins 249.5 BB

Wow.. Didn't expect that hand.
I still wouldn't have shoved because on the long run I think even fishy guys have a strong range there. But apparently this time it was good.

Doesnt matter what you do on the turn, your chips are going in no matter what. You can never fold here. The pot is 110 and he has 70.
If he bets vs checks really often, then check to him.
If he never folds, just go all in to get the most value of his draws and weaker pairs.
If he hit the A or better - good for him.

I think you played it just fine.

Even maniac is going to have quite strong range that has some Ax in it too. If he can call our shove with AK AQ, that is not good.

why is not good is if he calls with AQ, Ak on the flop ?

Originally posted by GeorgeAA2010

Betting on the flop while you probably still are ahead is correct, I dislike the idea about check jam there because we don't want to give a free card and see an ace and villain still can have 88 and JJ in his range and if we check jam we are very likely playing against sets only, it would be overplay.

That's how a nit/reg thinks. He will never have 33 in that spot, in my opinion only 88 and JJ, 8J ?? no? So how can you say that check-jam is a overplay ? Villain is gonna call with AJ, KJs, 9Ts, QQ maybe AK if he's a gambler. Our member said that villain might be a potential maniac therefor I will let him bet if he checks-back fair enough I will play a small pot with him.
Anyway that's only my opinion.

The problem with xc on turn is that villain has 72.5BB left in a 113Bb pot and if he bets, he will play for AI.

It matters plenty what we do on turn.

• Is he ever calling with a worse hand?
• Is he ever betting with a worse hand if we check?
• Is he ever folding a worse hand?

Business as usual. If he floats flops in this spot, then checking is better. He's not necessarily going to complete all floats all the way. Is he going to fold a floated Axs?

Also, there is plenty of value gained (money not lost!) if he checks behind all the way with beating us. A floated AQ/AT might be very happy to just win the pot. Obvious example not directly related to OP: Second nut flush, paired board. I bet "because I have to call anyway" . Villain moans a while, calls, and turns over the nut flush, and tells you he didn't like that pair showing up. Been there, done that. Plenty of times:f_frown: Hopefully wiser now, at least way from the table:D

Does he really float much? I have no idea, that guess is up to you. But putting in the money "because we have to call anyway" often flawed in the logic.