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The River Bluff

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srichards
Joined: 26.11.2012

This is why I never bluff the river. You are just setting yourself up to lose big if you are called. Easy call for me. I am really not that worried about the backdoor flush. I was slightly concerned about a better straight. And for those who wish to criticize my pre flop limp. Well this hand is an example of why I like to limp. First I expected one of the players behind me to raise. And I was not making it easy for anybody to three bet against my JJ. I want to play this JJ and only QQ+ and AK are in my three bet call range. So, limping is my choice. Also, by focusing on post flop play and reading your opponents, you can win more than by winning pre flop. The entire “you must raise pre flop to have a chance to win pre flop” strategy is silly to me. I rather out play my opponent and win more money post flop. I do not care about winning small pre flop pots. I want to win larger post flop pots. But please spare me the ridicule of my pre flop play. I am more interested in your views on River bluffs and comments on my flop, turn, and river play.

Ignition - $0.10 NL - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (CO): 99.5 BB
BTN: 267.8 BB (VPIP: 23.08, PFR: 15.38, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 13)
SB: 92 BB (VPIP: 34.04, PFR: 29.79, 3Bet Preflop: 21.43, Hands: 47)
BB: 105.5 BB (VPIP: 12.50, PFR: 10.42, 3Bet Preflop: 15.79, Hands: 49)
UTG: 106.6 BB (VPIP: 23.26, PFR: 11.63, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 43)
MP: 105.5 BB (VPIP: 32.65, PFR: 4.08, 3Bet Preflop: 4.76, Hands: 49)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has J♦ J♥

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) SB has Q♠ K♣

UTG calls 1 BB, MP calls 1 BB, Hero calls 1 BB, fold, SB calls 0.5 BB, BB checks

Flop: (5 BB, 5 players) 5♥ T♠ 9♣
SB bets 2.4 BB, BB calls 2.4 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 4.8 BB, SB calls 2.4 BB, fold

Turn: (17 BB, 2 players) 7♥
SB bets 12.2 BB, Hero calls 12.2 BB

River: (41.4 BB, 2 players) 8♥
SB checks, Hero bets 12.7 BB, SB raises to 74 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 61.3 BB

SB shows Q♠ K♣ (High Card, King)
(Pre 43%, Flop 29%, Turn 18%)
Hero wins 180 BB


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10 replies
mlatasrb
Joined: 01.04.2012

After you induce a fish you can't fold a straight that blocks flush and other straights. i would bet that river larger like pot size, fish doesn't like to fold sets, 2 pairs.
he represents only ThQh, ThKh, ThAh type of hands


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SDK1987
Joined: 12.11.2008

With all respect, but why you aren't raising pre-flop with JJ?
You don't want to play a hand like JJ multi way I think.
As played I would raise more on the flop.
You can easy raise like 10bb multi way for value and protection.
On the river I would bet a little bit more as well like 22bb.

Cheers,
SDK1987


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pguest
Joined: 01.04.2009

My advice here is to remove villain's hand or to put it inside spoiler tags, so it doens't influence the responses.

Apart from that, stop limping your big pairs, man. C'mon. Their equity will decreased a lot by the villains limping behind you.


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pguest
Joined: 01.04.2009

JJ has around 77% of equity against 1 villain holding a random hand, but "only" 50ish% against random hands of 3 villains.


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zetozinho
Joined: 18.06.2017

I won't discuss preflop play as you seem to have it all set up in your mind.
I like the flop raise, but raise bigger. Your hand is an overpair, but it is vulnerable. Even more multi-way.
Bet river big, you have a polarized range after the flop raise and turn call. That way, you can bet/call with your straight easily.
Villains line makes no sense at all btw.


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venatici
Joined: 15.03.2010

I like to raise preflop and I like bigger raise on the floo, something around 10bb


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srichards
Joined: 26.11.2012

Thanks guys. That was some good feedback. I must consider bigger post flop raises and bigger bets. I tend to bet smaller to not chase away villains when I am confident to win. But that strategy requires more time to consider. However, I still have one question. Do you guys and girls ever bluff the river?


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srichards
Joined: 26.11.2012

Originally posted by pguest
JJ has around 77% of equity against 1 villain holding a random hand, but "only" 50ish% against random hands of 3 villains.

Agreed. But, I may win bigger pots if I play well post flop against multiple villains.


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SDK1987
Joined: 12.11.2008

I don't think so, but your bet is a thin value bet with the straight and his shove with KQ makes no sense at all. You should expect he would only shove with a flush or straight as well.


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pguest
Joined: 01.04.2009

Originally posted by srichards

Originally posted by pguest
JJ has around 77% of equity against 1 villain holding a random hand, but "only" 50ish% against random hands of 3 villains.

Agreed. But, I may win bigger pots if I play well post flop against multiple villains.

Doesn't make much sense to me trying to outsmart 3 different people, but it is your call.

Unfortunately, I only have a very small sample size (around 240k hands), so that wouldn't effectively work as a benchmark, but a bad to mediocre player (myself) playing KK+ in a tag/nitish way was able to won, on average, 9,72BB whenever he was dealt one of those hands. For JJ-QQ, the result was something around 2,35BB. Played FR, NL 2 to 10.

Now, at least, you'll have something to compare your strategy to.
Not that I care...


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