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How would you act preflop? Poll is created on Jan 23, 2015

  
  
  

[Highlight] Can you fold Kings pre?

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Hi guys, I played an interesting hand a few days back on NL 25 Zoom. I got Kings, so what do you normally think then?

But:
Do you also sometimes think: I got the NUUUUUTS and then suddenly it does not look that good anymore?

Poker Stars $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 2647368
[

Hero (BTN): $25.00
SB: $35.21
BB: $25.00
UTG: $28.72
MP: $26.05
CO: $34.64

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is BTN with K :heart: K :diamond:
UTG raises to $0.75, MP raises to $1.75, CO raises to $4.50, Hero ?

The opponents
I didn´t have any reads to the players, but since you usually don´t see players cold 4-betting UTG raises, I was tempted to just open fold kings.
Later I had a look in that hand in the HM2 replayer and found out that players had following stats with reasonable 3-bet numbers:
UTG 34/26/1,7 (vpip/pfr/af)
MP 14/13/1,0
CO 26/21/2,7

RAISE - CALL - FOLD

Option A) FOLD
If I folded kings my EV would be 0 and I can go forward with next hand. But who really folds kings pre-flop :P

Option B) RAISE

Coming back my decision: since I don´t really want to fold it leaves either call or cold 5-bet.
Lets first look decision about 5-betting. I think shove seems less stronger than making it 9$ and if I get 6-bet shove I would likely see 90% times of aces.
My only problem about shove is that it also looks extremely strong. I would fold my spot comfortable pre-flop JJ, QQ, AK, since players have just shown too much strength and I don´t have to put myself into marginal spot. So players might fold everything besides KK, AA which would put me bad spot. I would win maybe 20% 7.25$ and other 80% have 22,6% equity against KK,AA. Doesn´t seem too good deal.

Option C) CALL

So I choose call the following reasons:
I am in position, I keep in his dominated hands (QQ, AK, maybe JJ) and I leave myself getting away from hand if board comes really bad (for example AQx or QJT). Also I should be ahead against their ranges more than 38%, which is my direct pot odds.
The disadvantage obviously is that flops can come up Q- or J-high, but especially A-highs are killing me. On top I probably don't get any additional value from AK.

How did the hand play out
well, I did not see a showdown, so I couldn't get any further details. If you're interested, check the spoiler:

Spoiler

Hand went forward:
Hero calls $4.50, 4 folds

Flop: ($11.85) 4 :heart: 7 :club: 4 :club: (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $5, CO calls $5

Turn: ($21.85) Q :diamond: (2 players)
CO checks, Hero checks

River: ($21.85) J :club: (2 players)
CO bets $15.65, Hero folds

My plan on the flop was b/c flop to then shove most turn cards. I was also consider shoving on Q turn, but felt that I´m not ahead 50% to shove there profitable and it is really difficult him to call me down with worse hands. Since river was one of the worst cards on the deck besides Ac I decided to make hero fold in 4-bet pot. It is very hard to see that I´m 29% ahead and I can´t figure out hand that would cold 4-bet, c/c flop to then bluff on the river (maybe one AcKs and some KcAx combos that wanted to see turn card).

Not sure? Decide by the limit!

  • CALL - NL 25 Zoom cold 4-bets tend to be new trend so CO range should be wider than KK+.
  • FOLD - NL10 Zoom where players are more passive, fold is likely the best option
  • ALLIN - NL50+ shove is likely the best option, since you get snapcalled QQ+ and maybe AK on average



So guys, what would you do in my spot?
Also, did you ever fold Kings? If so, in which situation preflop?


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13 replies
Megacorpse
Joined: 29.03.2011

nvm I was blind for a minute there and didnt see what exactly happened in the hand :P


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Contemplate the meaning of life/feel sorry for yourself/tilt a bit/ before click the fold and watch button, which is actually an easy decision. Only put money in the post if the 4better is an aggro fishtard. If CO jams I'd call probably

Hate yourself for a minute of they go allin and none of them have AA


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Mon3yMaChin3
Joined: 15.03.2011

In higher stake i think ok you can fold KK preflop when you have many infos for the opponent,but dude is NL25 is micro,i see many people in micro NL5-10(nl25 is not my stake) jam with AKo/QQ and many more.I never fold KK if villain i unknow (less than 1k hands) when i have big information for him ok I'll think about,but is micro.Sometimes you fold your KK but vs unknow never.Sometimes you go all in 4bet with KK and you know the opponent have AA but you do.I think this is such a time.


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I3ryI3e
Joined: 15.05.2009

I play NL5 and in my limit i think that is an easy fold, in NL25 i'm not really sure depends alot on reads, but i see that MP is really tight and we are blocking alot of AK combos so what is his range 3betting UTG? And CO is cold 4betting a UTG player and a tight MP 3bet, so it looks very very strong, i think fold is our best option.


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Tomaloc
Joined: 17.01.2011

i would fold and not feel bad at all about it as well


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GingerKid
Joined: 05.08.2007

If we assume villians are good regs, not overplaying qq, AK. In that case 5bet KK would be a bluff? How do we play AA? It looks crazy strong at any limit, so maybe just flat AA in order not to isolate vs AA?


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Tomaloc
Joined: 17.01.2011

you just cant look weak when you do anything other than folding in this spot


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GingerKid
Joined: 05.08.2007

Originally posted by Tomaloc
you just cant look weak when you do anything other than folding in this spot

sure, but shove or 5bet cold looks really only as AA. And if we flat, we can rep QQ+, AK, and get more action this way with our AA. That way utg or MP are more likely to shove AK, QQ+ or at least KK+ having more dead money, as our flat looks more as QQ, KK, AK.


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Wolke678
Joined: 05.02.2015

I just made a post about the same kind of situation only had an A on the flop. I ended up making the fold post flop. Really wasn't keen to do it but sometimes winning is about the chips i don't put in the pot too.


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lnternet
Joined: 19.06.2012

KK is a fold here. CO o4 range should be AK, KK+, he folds AK to a jam, so you're only getting it in crushed.
You play a 5bet range of AA, A5s, and 1-2 combos A4s here.


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HNRoger
Joined: 12.06.2007

Normally i would say its a fold but the 3bet .....
I have seen a lot of strange things being induced by a "minraise" or a weird betsize preflopp.


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YohanN7
Joined: 15.06.2009

The deciding factor is totally the exact range of the CO. I get anything between 20% and close to 40% equity (4-ways) when playing around with the range of the CO (60-40 favorite to 70-30 dog vs CO only). If you decide to play, raise. KK doesn't really like crowds (hates an A on the board).


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LookAwayNow
Joined: 30.06.2011

I would just call, just like you did. You're gonna run into aces too often with a cold-5-betting. Also I think open-folding is not superbad. If you had reads that villains are decent, I would consider open-folding.

And yes, I've folded Kings once pre-flop. I tank-flat-called the cold-4-bet first. But then this p3r3zzz guy snap-shoved and LenkaBubli snap-called. They both had okay-ish stats. I found it a relatively easy fold to be honest. One of them was going to have Aces like 100% of the time.

$0.05/$0.10Zoom No Limit Holdem
PokerStars6 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by WeakTight.com poker hands converter
Stacks:
UTG Hero ($25.11) 251bb
UTG+1 Lephty2Guns ($27.18) 272bb
CO Fredmms ($7.83) 78bb
BTN Parjato ($10) 100bb
SB p3r3zzz ($12.20) 122bb
BB LenkaBubli ($13.48) 135bb
Pre-Flop: (0.15, 6 players) Hero is UTG K♥: K♣:

Hero raises to $0.30, 1 fold, Fredmms calls $0.30, 1 fold, p3r3zzz raises to $1.30, LenkaBubli raises to $2.80, Hero calls $2.50, Fredmms folds, p3r3zzz goes all-in $12.20, LenkaBubli goes all-in $13.48, Hero folds

Flop: 7♣: 9♦: 2♠: ($28.78, 2 players), 2 all-in

Turn: Q♥: ($28.78, 2), 2 all-in

River: J♥: ($28.78, 2), 2 all-in

Final Pot: $28.78
p3r3zzz shows a pair of Aces
A♦: A♠:
LenkaBubli shows a pair of Aces
A♥: A♣:
p3r3zzz wins $13.13 (net +$0.93)
LenkaBubli wins $14.41 (net +$0.93)
Hero lost $2.80
Fredmms lost $0.30


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