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weird spot with AQ in 109t

 
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Last Post by amplifyd 14 years ago
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TheRebuz
TheRebuz
Joined: 12.10.2008
Posts: 2,077
21.03.2012, 09:55

PokerStars - $100+$9|20/40 NL (9 max) - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

UTG+1: 2,000.00
MP: 2,160.00
MP+1: 1,869.00
CO: 1,965.00
BTN: 1,855.00
Hero (SB): 1,662.00
BB: 2,000.00
UTG: 1,361.00

Hero posts SB 20.00, BB posts BB 40.00

Pre Flop: (60.00) Hero has A♥ Q♣

fold, fold, fold, MP+1 raises to 109.00, fold, BTN raises to 245.00, Hero ???

original raiser is MT reg, no specif reads also no reads on BTN too

Q: Do we 4bet here or fold, we should never cold call here right ?( (or maybe we should)?
if we 4 bet, what sizing should we do it and what is our plan 4bet fold or 4 bet get it in vs one opponent?


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rhinoneil
rhinoneil
Joined: 16.04.2008
Posts: 1,159
21.03.2012, 12:49

Personally, unless its a rebuy I think this is a fold pre. I dont like getting involved early with AQ/AJ especially with 2 raisers.
If you 4 bet you cant really fold to the shove as you will commit to big a % of your stack already.
Calling is just bad


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TheRebuz
TheRebuz
Joined: 12.10.2008
Posts: 2,077
21.03.2012, 12:55

Originally posted by rhinoneil
Personally, unless its a rebuy I think this is a fold pre. I dont like getting involved early with AQ/AJ especially with 2 raisers.
I can see your reasons for 4 betting but once you make it 600, you cant fold to the shove, youve committed nearly 40% of your stack already.

i dint want to post what i do, can u please edit u comment to see other opinions

Spoiler

about sizing of 4bet i agree that when i 4bet i committee my self BUT dont u think that that also villains knows, and when i 4bet to that sizing which looks committing i dont think that they will 5bet shove light like ever so we r prety much crushed


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rhinoneil
rhinoneil
Joined: 16.04.2008
Posts: 1,159
21.03.2012, 14:06
Spoiler

Also I think if you 4bet / cant fold, you are rarely facing worse hands here so you are basically turning your AQ into a 4bet into a bluff.


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TheRebuz
TheRebuz
Joined: 12.10.2008
Posts: 2,077
21.03.2012, 14:45

Originally posted by rhinoneil

Spoiler

Also I think if you 4bet / cant fold, you are rarely facing worse hands here so you are basically turning your AQ into a 4bet into a bluff.

Spoiler

I do not agree on this one,
my reasoning is that we r not bluffing when we 4bet, the truth is that we think villains r full of shit like a lot of time and cos we cant realy call and play post with that hand oop we got to fold or 4bet,
stack sizes makes it realy awkward to 4bet cos we got to comit big % of our stack but on the other side from vilains perspective imo when we do 4bet here we will look super strong/commited/not folding and i'm not expecting villains to shove something worse in that spot imo their range in that spot is like JJ+/AK and i think they will find fold reasonable % of times with JJ/AK imo
also factoring that if btn is blufing he is most likely to have Ax so our outs vs MP r reduced
so imo we wont get right odds to call of in that spot if someone shoves when we 4bet vs their range


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chenny8888
chenny8888
Joined: 03.10.2007
Posts: 17,729
21.03.2012, 16:50

what size do you make it here to make it so that you don't have the right odds to call a 5betshove? i can't see any sizing that doesn't commit you. therebuz are you IDOLLS on pokerstars? ( http://weaktight.com/3930214 )

if so, congrats on becoming pokerstars pro!

w/ no reads on button, no info about bu/mp dynamic i think folding here is best. with some more info we can start justifying shipping preflop.


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TheRebuz
TheRebuz
Joined: 12.10.2008
Posts: 2,077
21.03.2012, 19:01

Originally posted by chenny8888
what size do you make it here to make it so that you don't have the right odds to call a 5betshove? i can't see any sizing that doesn't commit you. therebuz are you IDOLLS on pokerstars? ( http://weaktight.com/3930214 )

if so, congrats on becoming pokerstars pro!

w/ no reads on button, no info about bu/mp dynamic i think folding here is best. with some more info we can start justifying shipping preflop.

no i'm not, lol @hand is this some kind of level wtf

if we 4bet like 600 and one villain shove with JJ+,AK+ range we have break even pot odds


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chenny8888
chenny8888
Joined: 03.10.2007
Posts: 17,729
23.03.2012, 04:23

don't make it much more than 1/4 of your stack when bluffing.

definitely don't make it anywhere close to 1/3 of your stack when bluffing.

and it's an absolute cardinal sin to make it 600/1600 and then fold.

IDOLLS' play there is not very good, please don't copy it.


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TheRebuz
TheRebuz
Joined: 12.10.2008
Posts: 2,077
23.03.2012, 10:02

Originally posted by chenny8888
and it's an absolute cardinal sin to make it 600/1600 and then fold.

IDOLLS' play there is not very good, please don't copy it.

#1 why?

#2 I won't


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amplifyd
amplifyd
Joined: 03.08.2009
Posts: 1,769
17.04.2012, 23:25

Doing anything here is just FPS imo - like I fold here every singletime regardless of villians.


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