Skip to forum
Losing money due to...
 
Notifications
Clear all

Losing money due to bad beats/suckouts

44 Posts
12 Users
0 Reactions
8,763 Views
EmanuelC16
Joined: 02.01.2010

Snap fold at last hand.

You were 4 way to the flop, it hits all their range hard, you bet, get called and then someone still raises. JJ are almost never good here, just fold.

What you still don't do is rebuy to 100bb! Why? ?(


Reply
Quote
londonsystem
Joined: 19.11.2008

For the last hand, I think it's a fold. I would respect c/r in this level very much.


Reply
Quote

I find that I'm better at SSS/MSS... but I'm trying to move up to BSS...

currently if I play BSS it affects my play because I'll have this nagging fear that I'll lose all my money... whereas for SSS/MSS this fear is reduced because my stack is less deep...

and I find that I seem to win pretty decent amounts at SSS/MSS... but eventually I'll move up to BSS


Reply
Quote

of course you are folding, turbo fold, you can even fold this if it's just you and him because there's a huge range that is beating you: obviously all the sets and straights, but you also have to worry about 64 and 67 which is very likely, not to mention 45, 65 and 75, you are flipping with those, also with 1 pair + flush draws and the stronger draws are owning you

also if a guy limps make more than 3x: 4x or 5x and more if there are more limpers


Reply
Quote
Krisstef
Joined: 20.10.2011

Hi,

That last hand with the JJ: 61/33 does not say THAT much as to whether or not he has it. He obviously plays a lot of hands and a straight or a set are both in his range. It surely does not look like a bluff to me though, its a multiway pot and he raised quite a bit and then continued on the turn after being called. Its hard to say you really need to watch the action on the table even if you're not involved in a hand. There is a funny thing going on in the micros where really aggressive players who bluff a lot always SLOWPLAY monsters which is ridiculous. Most players you'll find there fall into patterns so if you see them slowplaying a set they may very well slowplay it every time they got it, wouldnt really expect them to mix it up or look for the best possible play.

About learning from TV poker shows, imo- don't. Seriously they play a whole different game and they have a good reason (read,history) for every move they make, it does not at all apply to the poker most of us play. The shows are entertaining though, poker players are a funny breed.

Good luck at the tables.

Regards,

Chris


Reply
Quote

How to handle LAG players who are seemingly unstoppable? Either they make everyone fold to them, or they get lucky on the river and win anyway?

I called a LAG player with pocket 7s (overpair) all the way to the river (J) and he won by pairing his J (he held J9s).

I tilted quite bad this session after playing with this asshole. Another guy fell victim to him after he hit his lucky flush on the river too.


Reply
Quote
EmanuelC16
Joined: 02.01.2010

The general advice is to no show up with weak ranges where you expect lots of pressure.

You will usually not do well if against an aggressive player you just start calling down mariginal holdings because his style works when opponents just call. As a loose aggressive player you do your best when others go into calling mode and overestimate your aggression so you look like a maniac that will get paid off very light.

Aggression doesn't always mean air. There are many hands with equity that barrel if the player knows you call too ligher like overcards + gutshot, OESD, FD, etc. along with many thin value hands like TP mediocre kicker, second pair top kicker so the betting frequency is high but not at all weak when compared to someone's calling range!


Reply
Quote

I see, thanks a lot, that was informative!

Another question: Is it normal to have "bad luck days" when everything just seem to go wrong, e.g. TPTK beaten by 2 pairs, draws don't hit, hole cards are trash/good but don't hit, etc.? Because today I lost 121 big blinds... and I feel like crap now because my past sessions over the last week were generally pretty good.

My bb/100 is now 7.88 (it was like 20 previously?)


Reply
Quote
EmanuelC16
Joined: 02.01.2010

Yeah, that's super normal. I wouldn't say you had swingy days until you have at least a few +5 or -5BI days. That's not a lot either but it's something a lot less likely than +1 or -1 BI and having a few of those will paint a bigger picture about poker.

Your winrate is fine, btw! As a beginner, anything >0 is good and as someone who started poker but takes it seriously and puts in the study hours you should be proud of anything >6bb/100.

Keep in mind that winrates of 6bb/100 or more is considered crushing starting from stakes as low as NL50 so having 6bb/100 at NL2 when just starting out means you are doing something right and have potential.


Reply
Quote

Crushing as in good or bad crushing?

And is it feasible to aim for a winrate of at least 15bb/100?


Reply
Quote
Tomaloc
Joined: 17.01.2011

crushing as in good

i would be very happy to keep 5bb/100 as i move up the limits.


Reply
Quote

Cool...

one takeaway I've learned is that no matter how bad a game goes... it's super-important not to lose your cool and tilt... because if you do that, when your luck comes, you're merely recovering your losses and not winning money...

Anyway for this hand, should I have called? Not sure if overpair/set or just cbet...

IPoker, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

MP: $4.24 (212 bb)
CO: $2.03 (101.5 bb)
BTN: $4.02 (201 bb)
SB: $2.34 (117 bb)
Hero (BB): $1.12 (56 bb)
UTG: $3.54 (177 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Kc Ad
UTG raises to $0.04, 2 folds, BTN calls $0.04, SB folds, Hero raises to $0.08, UTG raises to $0.12, BTN folds, Hero calls $0.04

Flop: ($0.29) 2c 8s 9h (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $0.21, Hero folds

Results: $0.29 pot ($0.01 rake)
Final Board: 2c 8s 9h
Hero mucked Kc Ad and lost (-$0.12 net)
UTG mucked and won $0.28 ($0.16 net)

Edit: I don't know why but it seems that everytime I revamp my playing strategy/style... I seem to win a lot very fast at the start but after several sessions I'll start losing big. :( For the current one I have reflected on the way I play and I think it's because I'm not aggressive enough (I get pushed out easily when others bet with probably nothing, and I don't bet when I have nothing). So I just purged my HEM of the 1400+ hands and I'm going to try out a new strategy. :)


Reply
Quote
EmanuelC16
Joined: 02.01.2010

Hi,

By the looks of it, you haven't read the articles here too well. I have also repeatedly told you to sit with 100BB at the table! Next thing is stop the minraising preflop or 3betting very small.

You put in some time playing but if you don't study and pay attention to what advices you get from more experienced players you will never be able to become a winning player. This doesn't mean blindly following what others say but you still have to give it some thoughts.

I hope to see better hands from you with fewer mistakes. If you read the Basic and the Cbet articles you will already have asnwered all the questions about this hand.

You should have 3bet preflop to at least 8bb and then cbet that flop because you are ahead of his range and will take it down often enough.

Regards,
Manu.


Reply
Quote

Originally posted by EmanuelC16
Hi,

By the looks of it, you haven't read the articles here too well. I have also repeatedly told you to sit with 100BB at the table! Next thing is stop the minraising preflop. Raise to at least 3bb when first it (4bb recommended for beginners) and 3bb (4bb) +1bb per limper when you are not first in the pot.

You put in some time playing but if you don't study and pay attention to what advices you get from more experienced players you will never be able to become a winning player. This doesn't mean blindly following what others say but you still have to give it some thoughts.

I hope to see better hands from you with fewer mistakes. If you read the Basic and the Cbet articles you will already have asnwered all the questions about this hand.

You should have 3bet preflop to at least 8bb and then cbet that flop because you are ahead of his range and will take it down often enough.

Regards,
Manu.

Hi,

Maybe my reasoning is flawed but currently I'm a little hesitant to sit with 100bb (I'm afraid of losing it all), so I plan to master NL2 with <100bb before moving up to NL2 at 100bb.

Another thing about raising/3-betting, I am always afraid of facing a shove all-in from villain and risking my buy-in. According to SSS with AK I should hope to go all-in preflop, but BSS says I should go all-in with only AA and KK. That's why I'm apprehensive about sitting with 100bb AND 3-betting so large, if I'm faced with an all-in shove I'd be stuck in a very difficult position.

And as for cbet, usually I'd cbet, but villain is loose and will call my cbet even with air (IIRC he was the one who called with air and hit top pair on the river), so I figured cbetting will only make me pot-committed, or worse, he will re-raise. That's why I checked, hoping that if he bets small, I can get a (cheap) look at the next card.


Reply
Quote
EmanuelC16
Joined: 02.01.2010

Play less, study more. You have the very basic leaks and flaws in understanding.

First of all, if you play with good Bankroll Management, you won't go broke, so there is no "minimizing losses" strategy which is what you are trying.

Secondly, AK is to fold only if someone raises behind you which means cold 4bet. Against someone who looks like a loose player who raises preflop and then 4bets your 3bet you can easily go all in for 100bb, not to mention 50bbs.

Last but not least, if you're afraid of anything that could happen in poker you need to train your mindset really hard. When you join the table you have to believe you are profitable there, you are the best there, nobody will scare you. There might be tough competition but you are there to beat everyone with a solid play! :f_cool:

Yes, you might make mistakes but those are just normal, you will learn from them. The worst thing you can do is be scared or have a disctructive attitude towards your mistakes. Fear is a form of tilt and playing tilted will definitely won't be good for you! Learn from mistakes and always be confident in your game!


Reply
Quote

Hi,

alright, I will. Anyway, when playing BSS (100bb), if I limp pre-flop with Ax and hit 2 pair, how do I know when to give it up?

Because I just played a hand which I have A7 and I hit 2 pairs on the flop, I raised and was called (villain holding 77), I hit an A (fullhouse) on the river and went all-in and was called.

but if I did not hit my fullhouse and am re-raised, should I call? villain could hold over-pair (AA/KK/QQ...) or TPTK... or a set as well.


Reply
Quote
EmanuelC16
Joined: 02.01.2010

Hold on there just a second!

No limping first in preflop. You can limp after someone else limped in but otherwise raise or fold.

With regards to second question, your 2 pair will usually not be good against a river raise from what is expected to be a passive player. A 2pair type hand has different value. Top 2 is much more stronger than middle 2, not to mention bottom 2! It makes a big difference!

You won't go wrong if you bet for value 2 streets with your TP good kicker type hands and probably bet 2pair+ on river if there are no obvious draws that completed. You can easily fold to a raise if you don't have the relative nuts because passive players don't raise without the nuts! It's just that easy! Bet until you get raises, then fold if you don't have the nuts. It's a money printing recipe at NL2. ;)

Manu.


Reply
Quote

Originally posted by EmanuelC16
Hold on there just a second!

No limping first in preflop. You can limp after someone else limped in but otherwise raise or fold.

With regards to second question, your 2 pair will usually not be good against a river raise from what is expected to be a passive player. A 2pair type hand has different value. Top 2 is much more stronger than middle 2, not to mention bottom 2! It makes a big difference!

You won't go wrong if you bet for value 2 streets with your TP good kicker type hands and probably bet 2pair+ on river if there are no obvious draws that completed. You can easily fold to a raise if you don't have the relative nuts because passive players don't raise without the nuts! It's just that easy! Bet until you get raises, then fold if you don't have the nuts. It's a money printing recipe at NL2. ;)

Manu.

Why can't I limp first, but I can limp after somebody else limps? What about for hands like Ax that are play-able, but not good enough for a raise (esp. out of position)?


Reply
Quote
EmanuelC16
Joined: 02.01.2010

Not good enough to raise = not good enough to play.

There are no Ax hands that are playable for a limp but not playable for a raise.

You shouldn't limp first in because you always have a weak hand without initiative and OOP. The difference when limping behind is that you will be IP against at least someone and you still do it with hands that will play well multiway like suited Ax, pairs and good suited connectors.

I strongly suggest you revisit the beginner articles and come back when you have questions from there. I don't think you coming with "one play" questions will be more effective than reading about a game plan and adjust it when the case for doing so appears.

Cheers,
Manu.


Reply
Quote

Why the hell are you not buying in for full stack? It's like blasphemy!! :f_confused:
You are complaining about bad beats and saying you can't get value out of hands when you have a monster.. If you don't have a full stack how the hell are you going to get your value in the first place??

You have made a lot of suspect plays and obviously have a lot of leaks. And the fact you didn't even know what "fold equity" meant means you really have to go back and study some more.

Just go to YT and search "NL micro stakes strategy" and watch some of the instructional videos there. Also you don't seem to be able to put your opponent on any kind of range. You need to be thinking, well why did he call me here, what did he make on the turn, why did he just re-raise me etc.

Other than that I wish you all the best! _biggrin:


Reply
Quote