Originally posted by wlcKeD
Originally posted by pleno1
So once they know we are 4bet bluffing a lot they will naturally make a good adjustment of 3b/5b hands like 22+ so we can now 4b/call hands such as 88 for value and be happy to be ahead of a lot of their range.Hello,
Would you mind telling what the whole value range, apart mentioned 88, might be in this situation?
And are there any hands that you would 6b-shove with?
Thx for the answers
Hey,
Sure.
It would look something like
88
99
1010
JJ
KK
AKAJs
AQs
AKs
AQo
AKoif we think he is going completely insane then including a hand like KQ that will not be dominated often by his hands in his range but dominate alot of his spew hands, whilst flipping (getting good odds once we have 4b to call) is ok cool.
The counter to our 4b/call wider range is for villain to 4bet shove. I really hate this adjustment and it really takes the poker out of poker.
So anyyyyyyyywaayyyy, people started calling these 4bet shoves REALLY light. Last year at 600nl, very good regs were snapping these shoves with hands such as J10ss as they figured that the villain was usually shoving small pocket pairs or aq/ak whilst never 4bet shoving 1010+ or aj/a10 meaning they were getting the right odds to call.
Pretty sick huh
Originally posted by pleno1
So anyyyyyyyywaayyyy, people started calling these 4bet shoves REALLY light. Last year at 600nl, very good regs were snapping these shoves with hands such as J10ss as they figured that the villain was usually shoving small pocket pairs or aq/ak whilst never 4bet shoving 1010+ or aj/a10 meaning they were getting the right odds to call.
Pretty sick huh
Last year NL600, this year NL50
Prima, $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
MP: $50 (100 bb)
CO: $48.48 (97 bb)
Hero (BTN): $50 (100 bb)
SB: $58.15 (116.3 bb)
BB: $123.63 (247.3 bb)
UTG: $50 (100 bb)Preflop: Hero is BTN with A
A
3 folds, Hero raises to $1.25, SB folds, BB raises to $4.25, Hero raises to $50 and is all-in, BB calls $45.75Flop: ($100.25) Q
5
Turn: ($100.25) 4
River: ($100.25) JResults: $100.25 pot ($3 rake)
Hero showed A
and won $97.25 ($47.25 net)
BB showed J
Hello pleno1, you'll be glad to hear that the popularity of this thread has reached the Portuguese community
I read all your posts and I'm enjoying it a lot.
I'm struggling in NL50 6max. One thing that I have a lot of doubts when making decisions is how to approach the post flop of 3bet pots when we are not the PFR.
Could you elaborate a little on this topic? (let's assume Hero is always IP)
Example, Hero is BU vs BB resteal from a regular. With what hands do you flat and based on what information (resteal in BB, 3bet vs open BU, fold to 4bet, cbet flop/turn/river in 3bet pots).
Could you talk about a little about board texture in 3bet pots and good spots to make moves?
I know my questions are a bit vague but I would love if you tried to ellaborate a little.
Thanks a lot for this opportunity!
Originally posted by DeMarcohsp
Thanks for the explanations
No problem mate, lets speak soon.
Originally posted by double2
Hello pleno1, you'll be glad to hear that the popularity of this thread has reached the Portuguese community
That's great news, say Hi to Mazinga for me
Originally posted by double2
I read all your posts and I'm enjoying it a lot.
I'm struggling in NL50 6max. One thing that I have a lot of doubts when making decisions is how to approach the post flop of 3bet pots when we are not the PFR.
Could you elaborate a little on this topic? (let's assume Hero is always IP)
Example, Hero is BU vs BB resteal from a regular. With what hands do you flat and based on what information (resteal in BB, 3bet vs open BU, fold to 4bet, cbet flop/turn/river in 3bet pots).
Could you talk about a little about board texture in 3bet pots and good spots to make moves?
I know my questions are a bit vague but I would love if you tried to ellaborate a little.
Thanks a lot for this opportunity!
50nl is actually a surprisingly hard limit in the grand scheme of things, people will play very cautious and tight meaning its hard to really exploit LAG opponents, I'd definitely recommend game selection as a high priority.
The playing 3bet pots topic is very player dependent. Vs bad or mediocre regs (of which there will be very many at nl50) we can do a lot of things that will be very hard to balance but still be very +ev, most of them will be aggressive adjustments.
I would first say that vs 3bets we should be 4betting a lot, 4betting all broadways as blockers vs blind 3bets seems like an initial good strategy. Many people like to 3bet a lot at smaller/nittier limits, people adjusted and 4bet a lot and risk say 20bbs, but very rarely will you find absolute lunatics who are content on constantly 5b jamming trashy hands.
Having your button and being able to play comfortably is super important, most of our profit comes from the button and alot of that is from playing vs passive players who will call pre flop but c/f lots of flops. If they know we are going to be 4betting like a complete lunatic, generally they will take a passive adjustment and call more, rather than 3betting 5betting Q4s (an aggressive adjustment) so I'd definitely recommend just upping the aggresion levels one step further and really pushing the 4betting vs regs. If you do find out that they will happily 5bet jam every other hand then ok cool, won't work vs this guy but we can adjust quickly and well and widen our 4b/calling range.
I really think these guys are super exploitable pre flop in our overall game plan and really try to master this part of the game. Most of hands in poker are won with inititive and if you look at every pot you've played without initiative you're probably going to be showing a loss. Guess this means we should try to avoid playing hands without initiative.
I've done a lot of study on min 4bets. People will generally play SUPER BAD vs these raises.
Here is an example of a min 4bet.
I raise to 3bbs otb, bb 3bets to 10bb, i 4bet to 16/17 bbs.
Players at nl50 will generally have leaks and will play SUPER face up here either folding or calling their weak range (hands they initiall 3bet bluffed) or raise their reallllly good hands. Also we lay them a terrible price to fold as they have to shove another 83 BBS, rather than the normal 75 or whatever, meaning lots of the time they will jsut sigh fold/call hands like 22-88 of Axs that play SUPER terribly post flop but they think they are just getting too good of a price.
Sorry haven't gone on to flop textures here, but really want to emphasize the point of taking control and running over these regs.
Let me know if this is all crystal clear then we can move on to some flop strategies.
Cheers ♠_love:
edit: This will/should work vs almost all guys who play 19/17- 26/22 or whatever vs 36/34 maniacs then we can play differently ♦ they are definitely the minority though.
Originally posted by pleno1
Originally posted by double2
Hello pleno1, you'll be glad to hear that the popularity of this thread has reached the Portuguese communityThat's great news, say Hi to Mazinga for me
Originally posted by double2
I read all your posts and I'm enjoying it a lot.
I'm struggling in NL50 6max. One thing that I have a lot of doubts when making decisions is how to approach the post flop of 3bet pots when we are not the PFR.
Could you elaborate a little on this topic? (let's assume Hero is always IP)
Example, Hero is BU vs BB resteal from a regular. With what hands do you flat and based on what information (resteal in BB, 3bet vs open BU, fold to 4bet, cbet flop/turn/river in 3bet pots).
Could you talk about a little about board texture in 3bet pots and good spots to make moves?
I know my questions are a bit vague but I would love if you tried to ellaborate a little.
Thanks a lot for this opportunity!
Spoiler
50nl is actually a surprisingly hard limit in the grand scheme of things, people will play very cautious and tight meaning its hard to really exploit LAG opponents, I'd definitely recommend game selection as a high priority.
The playing 3bet pots topic is very player dependent. Vs bad or mediocre regs (of which there will be very many at nl50) we can do a lot of things that will be very hard to balance but still be very +ev, most of them will be aggressive adjustments.
I would first say that vs 3bets we should be 4betting a lot, 4betting all broadways as blockers vs blind 3bets seems like an initial good strategy. Many people like to 3bet a lot at smaller/nittier limits, people adjusted and 4bet a lot and risk say 20bbs, but very rarely will you find absolute lunatics who are content on constantly 5b jamming trashy hands.
Having your button and being able to play comfortably is super important, most of our profit comes from the button and alot of that is from playing vs passive pla...s.
Here is an example of a min 4bet.
I raise to 3bbs otb, bb 3bets to 10bb, i 4bet to 16/17 bbs.
Players at nl50 will generally have leaks and will play SUPER face up here either folding or calling their weak range (hands they initiall 3bet bluffed) or raise their reallllly good hands. Also we lay them a terrible price to fold as they have to shove another 83 BBS, rather than the normal 75 or whatever, meaning lots of the time they will jsut sigh fold/call hands like 22-88 of Axs that play SUPER terribly post flop but they think they are just getting too good of a price.
Sorry haven't gone on to flop textures here, but really want to emphasize the point of taking control and running over these regs.
Let me know if this is all crystal clear then we can move on to some flop strategies.
Cheers ♠_love:
edit: This will/should work vs almost all guys who play 19/17- 26/22 or whatever vs 36/34 maniacs then we can play differently ♦ they are definitely the minority though.
Thanks, I understand perfectly what you are saying. So if a guys 3bets vs open BU 10-15% and folds to 4bet 45-60% you would only flat the 3bet with, let's say, TT/JJ and AQ? Maybe KQ?
Except this specific range question we can move on to post flop!
How wide of a range are your oppening OTB? I really think you need to add at least some pp's and SC's to that range at the very least.
You can 4bet hands like KTo, KJo, QTo,Axo but I see no point in 4betting their suited versions or hands like Q9s,J9s,T8s.
Pleno do you use hands with 2 blockers or many one blocker hands as well like Kxs, Qxs, Axo ?
Pleno how do you play draws with 20-25% equity on the turn after you've cbetted flop for 1/2 pot in a 3bet pot ? It's the spot where if you'd bet another 1/2 PSB and get shipped on you would hate your life because you don't give a shit whether you call or fold ♦.
Also do you use different betting strategies as the 3bettor in standard 100 bb starting stacks? Like 2 streets get it all in and 3 streets get it all in. How do you decide which one to you use for what types of hands ?
Originally posted by pleno1
Originally posted by mindfucker33
Hi, Pleno1, I have read very much from this thread and it seems, that you are really good at what you are saying, answering, posting... , so I wanted to ask how do you manage loose aggressive (good) players when they are on your left, because I am playing 6max for some time now, but I still have leak when it comes to situation, when I am on SB and good loose aggressive player sits in BB?P.S. great thread!
Hey MF33,
Your first ever post on PS.com? Very happy to have it in here buddy.
Generally the correct adjustments vs these players will be to opening a tighter range and 4bet bluff a lot. In zoom people are 3betting a lot of hands, but are not 5bet bluffing alot.
So they have a BUNCH of 73s kind of hands in their 3betting range but are not total maniacs and 5bet shoving everything.
So because of this we should be 4bet bluffing a lot.
Once they have seen we are 4bet bluffing a lot the next adjustment would be to 4b/call wider for value. So once they know we are 4bet bluffing a lot they will naturally make a good adjustment of 3b/5b hands like 22+ so we can now 4b/call hands such as 88 for value and be happy to be ahead of a lot of their range.
I'd also say vs them we should try to have as many blockers in our hand as [possible, so hands like KJ become a lot more desirable to open than 107s because of the playability vs a 3bet.
Did this help?
Yes it actually is my first post! Great thread, opened my eyes a bit.
Ty for reply, I will try it, I had some kind of similar thinking through this, but I guess I needed someone, who has managed to be successful to say me something similar, so that I know I might be thinking the right way ;), ty very much, hope this thread doesn't end, I will keep reading and posting. Keep up the good job, GL on tables!
What do you think a solid winrate is to have, in todays games before taking a shot at a higher limit?
What do you think is the higher ev play in this spot? Villian is a MSSer, I have 600 hands on him and he's 3b 23% vs steals and 33% from the small blind, although position stats are probably not that reliable yet. Would you rather just jam or 4b $7ish? I usually just jam a really wide range, I think ATC will be profitible in this spot but maybe the other play has higher ev?
Poker Stars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) - Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Button ($63.32)
SB ($23.61)
BB ($51.33)
UTG ($46)
UTG+1 ($62.50)
MP1 ($300.09)
MP2 ($53.06)
MP3 ($22)
Hero (CO) ($50)
Preflop: Hero is CO with 4
, A
5 folds, Hero bets $1.25, 1 fold, SB raises $2.75, 1 fold, Hero raises $48.75 (All-In), 1 fold
Total pot: $6.50
Hi Pleno1
Is there any chance you could include your HUD configuration for download or give some sort of Idea of the ranges for the colours on the stats.
I have not been playing for a year or two so wouldn't know where to start with ranges on the stats at the minute.
Thanks in advance for any advice you could give on this.
Graham.
Hi Pleno1,
Great blog!
1. How do you categorize Player's Note types: TAG, LAG, Calling station, Maniak, Rock only or do you have some more specific ones?
2. What would be the most common types of notes you're taking on opponents?
Thanks
this blog is my all time ps favorite!!!!!! Pleno thanks for all your answer for me you are already member of the year 2012. ♦ ♦
Originally posted by DeMarcohsp
How wide of a range are your oppening OTB? I really think you need to add at least some pp's and SC's to that range at the very least.You can 4bet hands like KTo, KJo, QTo,Axo but I see no point in 4betting their suited versions or hands like Q9s,J9s,T8s.
Pleno do you use hands with 2 blockers or many one blocker hands as well like Kxs, Qxs, Axo ?
My 4bet bluff range vs tight players or players that I don't think will necessarily be 3betting hands like j7s as standard would inlcude double blockers as I will be playing the flop without initiative and not completely sure about my opponents range.
If you are ever unsure about a line in a hand where you are going to take a passive option then take the initiative and choose the aggressive option.
So in this case, we should be 4betting hands like k10/KJo vs players who we are unsure about their 3betting range as we have double blockers to their value 5bet range and also means we won't make any catastrophic post flop mistakes.
Once we know that villain is 3betting hands like j7s, then we can start defending hands like K10o and KJo as we will be playing against a dominated range and we will "cooler" them often with marginal holdings, i.e KJ v j7 on j44.
Originally posted by mindfucker33
Originally posted by pleno1
Originally posted by mindfucker33
Hi, Pleno1, I have read very much from this thread and it seems, that you are really good at what you are saying, answering, posting... , so I wanted to ask how do you manage loose aggressive (good) players when they are on your left, because I am playing 6max for some time now, but I still have leak when it comes to situation, when I am on SB and good loose aggressive player sits in BB?P.S. great thread!
Hey MF33,
Your first ever post on PS.com? Very happy to have it in here buddy.
Generally the correct adjustments vs these players will be to opening a tighter range and 4bet bluff a lot. In zoom people are 3betting a lot of hands, but are not 5bet bluffing alot.
So they have a BUNCH of 73s kind of hands in their 3betting range but are not total maniacs and 5bet shoving everything.
So because of this we should be 4bet bluffing a lot.
Once they have seen we are 4bet bluffing a lot the next adjustment would be to 4b/call wider for value. So once they know we are 4bet bluffing a lot they will naturally make a good adjustment of 3b/5b hands like 22+ so we can now 4b/call hands such as 88 for value and be happy to be ahead of a lot of their range.
I'd also say vs them we should try to have as many blockers in our hand as [possible, so hands like KJ become a lot more desirable to open than 107s because of the playability vs a 3bet.
Did this help?
Yes it actually is my first post!
Ty for reply, I will try it, I had some kind of similar thinking through this, but I guess I needed someone, who has managed to be successful to say me something similar, so that I know I might be thinking the right way ;), ty very much, hope this thread doesn't end, I will keep reading and posting. Keep up the good job, GL on tables!
Cool mate. One tip I would give that isn't detailed is that when somebody chooses to raise on the turn on a brick card they usualyl have it and we can fold to the top of our range.
Example.
We raise, they call and we have AA.
We cbet 872, they call.
We barrel on the 5 turn and they c/r, folding here in a vacuum will be the right play and you are exploiting them by making such a good fold when they have a totally unbalanced and heavily weighted value range.
Good luck crushing and see you back here soon.
Originally posted by peche025
What do you think a solid winrate is to have, in todays games before taking a shot at a higher limit?What do you think is the higher ev play in this spot? Villian is a MSSer, I have 600 hands on him and he's 3b 23% vs steals and 33% from the small blind, although position stats are probably not that reliable yet. Would you rather just jam or 4b $7ish? I usually just jam a really wide range, I think ATC will be profitible in this spot but maybe the other play has higher ev?
Poker Stars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) - Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Button ($63.32)
SB ($23.61)
BB ($51.33)
UTG ($46)
UTG+1 ($62.50)
MP1 ($300.09)
MP2 ($53.06)
MP3 ($22)
Hero (CO) ($50)Preflop: Hero is CO with 4
5 folds, Hero bets $1.25, 1 fold, SB raises $2.75, 1 fold, Hero raises $48.75 (All-In), 1 foldTotal pot: $6.50
Hey,
Win rates depend on a few things, in general we should be looking to increase our hourly rate.
For Mid Stakes and good sample size..
If you can beat a game for 10bb/100 you are absolutely crushing
If you can beat a game for 5bb/100 then you are a legit sicko
If you can beat a game for 2bb/100 then you are a really solid/good player
The thing is here in the hand we are risking a super large amount for a super small amount in the pot, the best way to exploit these guys is to 4b bluff alot. We don't need to make it $7 or $8, they always play fit/fold and will fold alot to 4bets and very very rarely call.
What I like to do is 4bet bluff a lot vs them and have a really wide value range.
So we 4bet/call 77+ AJ+, A10s+ KQo+ and bluff an absolute tonne, we can make it $4.20 or something here, once we make it $7 we are pricing ourself in, and whenever we price ourself into something we are making a mistake and can be easily exploited by players who understand math/can hand read.