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Nl200 Kk

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axelphoney
Joined: 03.10.2009

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $2(BB) Replayer
SB ($198)
BB ($248)
Hero ($399)
CO ($81.35)
BTN ($196)

Dealt to Hero K♣ K♦

Hero raises to $6, fold, BTN calls $6, SB raises to $24, fold, Hero calls $18, fold

FLOP ($56) 6♠ 7♥ A♥

SB bets $30, Hero folds

SB wins $53.20

SB: 34/28 - 80 hands
12% 3bet

BTN: 21/18 - 400 hands

Just want to hear your thoughts on flatting here pre, when having no loose 4bets dynamics preflop.

I would almost always fold hands like 88-JJ on this flop, so I assume KK is no different if we assume that villain will have a decent amount of aces in his squeezing range?


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4 replies
ilares
Joined: 25.10.2009

do you have his squeeze % ?

you cant fold KK on this flop!
he has JJ-QQ who cbet and you beat this, and sure he has Ax sometimes but he will not 3barrels A5o....


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lnternet
Joined: 19.06.2012

Flatting preflop is an alright play, but I as a default I think you are leaving money on the table with it.

Typically a SB vs MP vs BT squeezing range will be strong, most people don't bluff there too much (correctly so to an extent). With KK I think you should just try to stack his QQ/AK which he is going to have often instead of going for a slowplay which would be good against his 75s type of hands, which I doubt he has many of.

He does have a high 3bet over those 80 hands, so I can see where you are coming from. But I don't think that is strong enough of a read to change off of the default play of 4betting.

Flop is an easy call. Not easy in the sense of you are going to make a lot of money with it, but easy in the sense that it's clearly better than folding. If you just look at your equity on the flop it is going to be much higher than what you need to call, and I dont think future streets will be too much of a problem.

One argument which is very important is a consistency argument: By just calling preflop you are essentially saying "his 3bet range contains a lot of 86s K3s hands against which I want to slowplay". Now on this flop he will certainly cbet almost all 'air' hands. So KK is doing very well.

Another small argument is that I often see people check the flop with Ax hands that were bluffing preflop.. A3s and so on. You have probable done so yourself. So I think you are actually in much better shape on the flop than you think.


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axelphoney
Joined: 03.10.2009

Ok, so would the call be as easy with a smaller PPs as well? Let say 88, in the very same spot?

Only argument not to, if KK is an easy call here, would be that other broadways, SCs has more equity against our hands I guess?


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lnternet
Joined: 19.06.2012

88 is a lot worse off than KK. Just plug them into equilab or pokerstove vs a normal cbetting range. Because of all the JT KJ type hands, as well as cbets from QQ JJ TT, 88 will have substantially less equity than KK.

I think 88 is close on this flop vs a half pot cbet, wouldn't want to make a firm stance either way. I probably call 8 :heart: 8♦ and fold 9 :spade: 9♦ for backdoor reasons.


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