0,25/0,5 SH JJ second pair

By the river...

The button just can't have a king. Why would he be passive on both the flop and the turn? I don't think he has a pocket pair either for the same reasons. To some extent the same applies to the BB as well. Note: He did check the river too.

Thus, as played until the river, a check might be in order to induce a bluff bet from the button.

By the turn ...
I don't think you lose much value if a weak pair happens to fold on the turn. This will happen only in case they both have small pockets and would fold on the turn but call a river bet. This is unlikely. It's much more likely that one of them decides that Ax is worth hanging around with - or that they call with their pockets on the turn (or flush draws).

I'd bet once more and probably fold to a raise. The "delay until turn raise" is strong in a 3-way pot. I doubt that a small pair would make it. It doesn't make sense for a flush draw either.

Hmmm...
I sound like I pretend to know here. Actually I was quite uncertain when I began to write this post. This is why I started to write in the first place. I have managed to convince myself at least

/Johan =

Hi!

Yohan is totally right on betting the turn. Flop was not that bad for you since its just 1 overcard and once nobody raises chance that somebody has Kx goes down significantly.

Turn card then is very very good for you since it decreases possible Kx hands even further.Its basically the second best card appart from J obviously. And if somebody does have Kx then he was beating you regardless.

And if you take a look at what they might be having...FDs,6x,2x,pockets,some SDs are the most likely...then there are few slowplays like Kx,22,66 but these are really small amount... combos of hands that you beat is way way higher and you are a decent favourite here and should go for value. Checking with hand like that is quite bad as it looses too much value and gives freecards.

River then is an easy bet.Now you can be quiet certain that you have the best hand(unless 34 which you gave freecard to) so go for value against all possible pairs that will now call you quite surelly. I dont like inducing on the river since I think they have weak made hands very often and these are very likely to check behind and even if they indeed have FD then why arent they betting turn...meaning if they didnt bluff turn I wouldnt count on them bluffing river.

@YohanN7

Why would he be passive on both the flop and the turn?

Cause they are kind of a fish who can do that. Both of them were quite passive postflop. BB was kinda player who calls down with TPTK also if but with a weak kicker certainly. Same applies for the BU except that he would 3bet AK-s pre, and raise KJ,KQ, maybe KT, but I think he'd just call down K9-, but raise 2 pair+. And I think that any suited K is in his cold calling range, what he would not fold, plus some unsuited like K7-K9o. And I think I cant tell on the turn if they have improved to trips, cause I think the BB would try to c/r it against an agressive player like me, and BU is obviously after me.

I'd bet once more and probably fold to a raise.

Yeah against these players maybe its ok, but Im still not sure that the some players like the BB wouldnt start to semi-bluff with FD-s you if you snap fold in such spots too often for a raise. I would feel like I was an easy target for a semi bluff raise on the turn, but at the same time you should get value from these draws what you dont get if he checks behind. And this is why I posted this hand, cause Im so confused about this, casue if I played against a villain who plays his draw like this (that is raises if I fold, and checks behind if I check ) I would start feeling very uncomfortable. I must call if he can bluffraise here, but then I also pay off his value hands well. So it aint easy as it looks IMO.

@Dawnfall26

I think they have weak made hands very often and these are very likely to check behind and even if they indeed have FD then why arent they betting turn...meaning if they didnt bluff turn I wouldnt count on them bluffing river.

Are you sure ? I mean I see a lot of times that passive players do bet the river with trash hands (at least on 0,05/,01 0,1/0,2 Im not sure about 0,25/0,5 that I started playing recently), sometimes even raising trying to rep slowplayed trips, cause they put you on a draw, and checking the river means for them that you wanna fold.

Response to the second paragraph in the post above (about possibly becoming exploitable).

Of course, you have valid reasons to be a little bit worried because bet-folding is exploitable. But if it would save me a large fraction of a bet, on average, to fold in a certain spot, I'd do it.

At any rate, I think that exploitative lines (as opposed to being unexploitable) is more rewarding in terms of pure pleasure of playing. I don't mind entering a phase of meta-gaming.

Then again, there are days when I face the nuts every time I call and where I'm without a doubt being bluffed out when my shaky holdings are in fact the best.

/Johan =

Well yes they are fish(bu stats arent that fishy but still) but it doesnt really make any difference. Even if they do slowplay/or underplay all their better hands JJ is still a favourite here since they will also be playing worse hands in this manner, where quantity of pockets,6x,2x and things like 5x,Ahigh which fish might have is far greater than Kx,66,55,22. Also if you check you will still loose the same when bu bets a better hand.The only time you will profit is when bu checks a worse hand and bb wins with better one when you loose 1 bet less but that is not going to happen that often.

About your comment that people too often bet air hands on the rive when you check to them is absolutely true but on board like this there is not much that is busted except club FD.All posible straights got at least a pair with that 5. Also if you check you hope that bu is on FD and not bb since he already checked behind....but most importantly...I do think and Im sure that most fish anywhere will be very very scared and SD bound passive with weak made hands(talking about hands that would call your bet like 2x,6x,Ahigh,...) and that they will be checking behind most of the time which is going to be a huge lack of value.

You can't think about enemies that they always hold here a worser King and thats why you afraid of betting the turn. It's being result oriented and its bad.

Vs Whole their range you have valuebet turn, river, and colddown on raise , due to fact its paired board, and on such boards even most passive guys find their agression buttons.
Without read how they react on paired board you dont throw high pocket pairs in thsi spot.

Not playing on Turn bet its just weak and bad.