[Closed] Full Tilt Poker De-Tracks all PokerStrategy.com Players

Originally posted by Targetme
I might get flamed pretty hard for this but this is definitely good for the poker ecosystem. There is a bubble that has to burst, Pokerstrategy pumped in too many average/rakeback regs (I used to be one of them) as less rec players deposited and the ratio just got too high. Starting at 0% rb is definitely a good thing and will discourage people from giving poker a serious shot and attract a better ratio. Lower rakeback will kill off a few of the weaker ones which would greatly help the strong pros that make a higher % then they rake. It may seem like a hard reality but I cant see this as anything but a good thing for the future. That being said I love pokerstrategy and this is a bit of a scummy thing that fulltilt did to them but they have no play so its kind of coming off as whining. We are playing a selfish game so its not like they can influence many players. There is little they can do to improve there market share but its understandable that they try. I hope this is not the nail in the coffin Ive noticed a steep decline in the english community.

I stand in line to get flamed, because I mostly agree.

this is not the nail in the coffin of ps.com

ps.com has survived since BF without FTP commission and will continue doing so

also, ps.com wont have to survive long without it because if reports are true, affiliation will be back at FTP in Q1-Q2 2013

the old extra 27% cash (affiliate only) RB every week is gone forever, but earning ps.com points for volume is reasonbly expected to return, just like on Stars now

but probably only for new accounts

Originally posted by pblankfield
The online poker market is mature and therefore it is now more directed into understanding the needs of their customers rather than to attract hordes of newcomers.

[x] Pokersites got more traffic from affiliates.

This is true in the past tense - nowadays the traffic is more or less saturated and the "gold tush" is over. This is precisely were affiliating sites were useful.

It's over, they don't need it anymore.

That doesn' mean there won't be new players, of course, and this is specifically why they took this step. We should be realistic here - FTP is merely trying to strat off "fresh" and one of their big concerns is surely that they are aware that thousands of sharks are now awaiting D-Day to conquer a virgin land. By taking those steps they hope to discourage heavy grinders, web-sharks and alike and create a fun environment that will potentially atract new players.

Again, it's a clever move.

I like everything in the post, except the fact that the "gold tush" is over. ♠_cry:

Originally posted by ArkhamAsylum
O no ............ pokerstrategy won't get affiliation money. How bad do I feel right now ..........

Guys, pokerstrategy would not be saying a bad word about fulltilt and their new vip system if fulltilt were still paying them affiliation. They would be saying it is the most fairest thing for everyone and singing it from the rooftops.

WE WILL STILL GET RAKEBACK FROM FULLTILT. Anyone who buys this new line from pokerstrategy and they are now only concerned after learning that THEY WON'T GET AFFILIATION MONEY.

I am not even a regular on ftp even before black friday and I can see through this new stance pokerstrategy have. Wake up and smell the coffee people, we will all be fine.

Great point! Good thing that PokerStrategy allows players to buy Strategy Points now. But you're right, it's going to mean less money for PS.

article of pokerfuse says Rational Group will only reimburse the portion of winnings+deposits+in-house VIP in player accounts and not affiliate earnings

does this mean ROW players wont get back 100% of their account balances?

only 100% less all affiliate RB ever earned?

Originally posted by Targetme

Originally posted by roopopper

Originally posted by zobupasts

Originally posted by MatejM47
I can't believe you guys think that regs won't play on FTP just because they don't get some points on some affiliate site. We're here to make money not some stupid points after all. And if full tilt does indeed get more fishy then other sites then obviously everyone's going to play there.

All in all the players really don't lose that much here. Yeah it sucks to lose the status here but really that doesn't give me nearly enough benefits to even consider not playing there. Being able to play on both sites for the best game selection is far superior then watching some vids here.

The only one losing big here is pokerstrategy.com since a lot of the current regs will go back to FTP so thats going to be a big drop of income and it seems like they can't do anything about it.

People who play at the stakes that you are and put in the volume that you do I believe that you don't care much about PokerStrategys videos and such. But for those lower stakes players like me who still can improve their game a lot that learning material means quite a bit. At the stakes where I'm playing table selection is not a problem and I can honestly say that this latest development is a deal breaker for me. I was going to play on FT for sure but now I will have to play somewhere else just so I can get my gold status.

+1 this is my opinion too thanks zobupasts

Roo

While I agree You also have to understand diamond level rake players like me and the op who will benifit alot playing on fulltilt rake a shit ton more then players who benifit the most from videos like you who make them say like 20 bucks a month.

I see your point and yes I understand this, but if there are a couple of hundred players who are diamond status and 1000's of low level stakes players (wish I could make $20 a month ) then surely this would balance out as about equal ? I have no idea how valid the content is for you nosebleed peeps, but for us fish, it helps us a lot.

I was recently chatting to a black member about pokerstrategy and what he gets from it,as there are no videos that could now teach him much at his level, he told me that when he had a problem at party poker and he tried to resolve it himself, party poker were no help at all, but when he got in touch with pokerstrategy support they sorted it for him as they have much more influence, he said this is the reason he likes to be tracked.

Also want to add that he would have lost thousands of dollars if pokerstrategy had not stepped in and resolved the issue. The way I see it pokerstrategy is about as close as we can get to having a poker union member representing us.

Originally posted by Tarhonya

Originally posted by Targetme
I might get flamed pretty hard for this but this is definitely good for the poker ecosystem. There is a bubble that has to burst, Pokerstrategy pumped in too many average/rakeback regs (I used to be one of them) as less rec players deposited and the ratio just got too high. Starting at 0% rb is definitely a good thing and will discourage people from giving poker a serious shot and attract a better ratio. Lower rakeback will kill off a few of the weaker ones which would greatly help the strong pros that make a higher % then they rake. It may seem like a hard reality but I cant see this as anything but a good thing for the future. That being said I love pokerstrategy and this is a bit of a scummy thing that fulltilt did to them but they have no play so its kind of coming off as whining. We are playing a selfish game so its not like they can influence many players. There is little they can do to improve there market share but its understandable that they try. I hope this is not the nail in the coffin Ive noticed a steep decline in the english community.

I stand in line to get flamed, because I mostly agree.

Hi Targetme & Tarhonya-

You’re right that many PokerStrategy.com community members are in fact some of the highest rakers and biggest winners in the game, so your position is certainly understandable. When it comes the number of winning players that PokerStrategy.com refers, there’s no argument from us – heck, our motto is “Learn to win”.

But there’s another side to the story. The vast majority of poker players that PokerStrategy.com refers to our partners are in fact brand new to poker.

As Full Tilt Poker’s previously largest marketing partner, tens of thousands of new poker players were signing up each month through our Free $50 program. This resulted in anywhere between $1.25 million to $1.65 million in brand new bankrolls that were being added to the ecosystem of that one room.

Overall, PokerStrategy.com has provided bankrolls to 1 million+ new poker players, that’s over $50 million that our community has added into the ecosystem – and this doesn’t even consider any player deposit outside of the original bankrolls we’ve provided.

As a poker education community, we pride ourselves not only on teaching players how to win at poker, but on the fact that we introduce new players to this great game. We understand the importance of a balance poker ecology, and work towards being a truly well-rounded marketing partner.

-ido1um

Don't get me wrong, i wasn't trying to say that there's no benefits to being tracked by pokerstrategy or that their video's are useless or anything like that. Actually i think their video section is really good or at least at PLO/NL that im interested in and i have no complaints in that department.

Obviously not being tracked sucks for all of us, no matter what status you've got. I really like this community and PS getting screwed over like this really sucks for all of us.

I was only trying to say that im not going to boycott FTP/STARS just because im not getting strategy points.

I mean where else are you gonna play? Yeah you can go to party, but on nl100 i was raking over 8bb/100 on party and on stars the rake is ''only'' 5bb/100, on top of their VIP system sucks and only gives you 30% rb if you can get to paladium while SN on stars gets you over 40%. Yeah you got some shitty promo's but unless you rake over 10k a month they give you like 2-3% extra rake back unless you bink something good in world domination or cards rush or what ever crap they come up with that looks way better then it actually is.

It really pisses me off where you rake 2 times as much playing on party for the privilege of playing on their shitty software. Unless they lower the rake to a point where its lower then on stars/FT im surely not going to play there.

I guess you really don't have much of a choice when it comes to where you want to play at this point.

Originally posted by ido1um

Originally posted by Tarhonya

Originally posted by Targetme
I might get flamed pretty hard for this but this is definitely good for the poker ecosystem. There is a bubble that has to burst, Pokerstrategy pumped in too many average/rakeback regs (I used to be one of them) as less rec players deposited and the ratio just got too high. Starting at 0% rb is definitely a good thing and will discourage people from giving poker a serious shot and attract a better ratio. Lower rakeback will kill off a few of the weaker ones which would greatly help the strong pros that make a higher % then they rake. It may seem like a hard reality but I cant see this as anything but a good thing for the future. That being said I love pokerstrategy and this is a bit of a scummy thing that fulltilt did to them but they have no play so its kind of coming off as whining. We are playing a selfish game so its not like they can influence many players. There is little they can do to improve there market share but its understandable that they try. I hope this is not the nail in the coffin Ive noticed a steep decline in the english community.

I stand in line to get flamed, because I mostly agree.

Hi Targetme & Tarhonya-

You’re right that many PokerStrategy.com community members are in fact some of the highest rakers and biggest winners in the game, so your position is certainly understandable. When it comes the number of winning players that PokerStrategy.com refers, there’s no argument from us – heck, our motto is “Learn to win”.

But there’s another side to the story. The vast majority of poker players that PokerStrategy.com refers to our partners are in fact brand new to poker.

As Full Tilt Poker’s previously largest marketing partner, tens of thousands of new poker players were signing up each month through our Free $50 program. This resulted in anywhere between $1.25 million to $1.65 million in brand new bankrolls that were being added to the ecosystem of that one room.

Overall, PokerStrategy.com has provided bankrolls to 1 million+ new poker players, that’s over $50 million that our community has added into the ecosystem – and this doesn’t even consider any player deposit outside of the original bankrolls we’ve provided.

As a poker education community, we pride ourselves not only on teaching players how to win at poker, but on the fact that we introduce new players to this great game. We understand the importance of a balance poker ecology, and work towards being a truly well-rounded marketing partner.

-ido1um

Your claims aren't true and you should be honest with Pokerstrategiest. None of the free 50$ were founded by pokerstrategy but by the Pokerrooms themselves. Pokerstrategy have had the highest and most expensive deals in poker enviroment. They were getting both CPA (the famous 50$ and most of the time more) and life time rev share on the top of that. That's the reason why so many rooms,network don't want to cooperate with your firm anymore cause the costs are to big comapred to benefits. In most cases pokerstrategy gets more money from the player than poker room itself!!!

So stop claming how much money pokerstrategy added to the poker economy cause that are false claims. Pokerstategy granted the 50$ for the players but in reality the money was coming from poker rooms never from pokerstategy.

Wow

Originally posted by ido1um
Hi Targetme & Tarhonya-

You’re right that many PokerStrategy.com community members are in fact some of the highest rakers and biggest winners in the game, so your position is certainly understandable. When it comes the number of winning players that PokerStrategy.com refers, there’s no argument from us – heck, our motto is “Learn to win”.

But there’s another side to the story. The vast majority of poker players that PokerStrategy.com refers to our partners are in fact brand new to poker.

As Full Tilt Poker’s previously largest marketing partner, tens of thousands of new poker players were signing up each month through our Free $50 program. This resulted in anywhere between $1.25 million to $1.65 million in brand new bankrolls that were being added to the ecosystem of that one room.

Overall, PokerStrategy.com has provided bankrolls to 1 million+ new poker players, that’s over $50 million that our community has added into the ecosystem – and this doesn’t even consider any player deposit outside of the original bankrolls we’ve provided.

As a poker education community, we pride ourselves not only on teaching players how to win at poker, but on the fact that we introduce new players to this great game. We understand the importance of a balance poker ecology, and work towards being a truly well-rounded marketing partner.

-ido1um

Not to turn the tides against pokerstrategy or anything, but those numbers are not very good at defending why pokerstrategy should be keep getting paid, because you're basically saying that throwing $50 million at us, players, is clearly worth it because we will rake more for you. Which should be obvious for everybody, but I don't see why it is mentioned. On a sidenote, I have nothing to back this up, but I suspect that the major part (if not all) of the money invested as starting $50 capitals was virtual, granted by the pokersite in exchange for players who will most likely rake (significantly) more than that.

Again, I love pokerstrategy and of course you should all be paid for your efforts and for helping online poker grow for years, but the lifetime revenue system is in my honest opinion is a joke. But than again, paying staggering amount of money individually to the sites for a game/hobby/sport as rake, just because poker is attached to money is even more of a joke.
The sad bottom line is that even if pokerstrategy is not getting a cut of that cake, chances are rake won't be lowered anyway, so yeah, I'm all for paying pokerstrategy which actually does something for the community instead of just sitting on their servers, counting the money and coming up retarded promotions to keep the players rake more.

Yes pokerstrategy support tried to help me with a problem with stars so I know first hand how they treat their ex diamond members

Originally posted by Tarhonya

Originally posted by ido1um
Hi Targetme & Tarhonya-

You’re right that many PokerStrategy.com community members are in fact some of the highest rakers and biggest winners in the game, so your position is certainly understandable. When it comes the number of winning players that PokerStrategy.com refers, there’s no argument from us – heck, our motto is “Learn to win”.

But there’s another side to the story. The vast majority of poker players that PokerStrategy.com refers to our partners are in fact brand new to poker.

As Full Tilt Poker’s previously largest marketing partner, tens of thousands of new poker players were signing up each month through our Free $50 program. This resulted in anywhere between $1.25 million to $1.65 million in brand new bankrolls that were being added to the ecosystem of that one room.

Overall, PokerStrategy.com has provided bankrolls to 1 million+ new poker players, that’s over $50 million that our community has added into the ecosystem – and this doesn’t even consider any player deposit outside of the original bankrolls we’ve provided.

As a poker education community, we pride ourselves not only on teaching players how to win at poker, but on the fact that we introduce new players to this great game. We understand the importance of a balance poker ecology, and work towards being a truly well-rounded marketing partner.

-ido1um

Not to turn the tides against pokerstrategy or anything, but those numbers are not very good at defending why pokerstrategy should be keep getting paid, because you're basically saying that throwing $50 million at us, players, is clearly worth it because we will rake more for you. Which should be obvious for everybody, but I don't see why it is mentioned. On a sidenote, I have nothing to back this up, but I suspect that the major part (if not all) of the money invested as starting $50 capitals was virtual, granted by the pokersite in exchange for players who will most likely rake (significantly) more than that.

Again, I love pokerstrategy and of course you should all be paid for your efforts and for helping online poker grow for years, but the lifetime revenue system is in my honest opinion is a joke. But than again, paying staggering amount of money individually to the sites for a game/hobby/sport as rake, just because poker is attached to money is even more of a joke.
The sad bottom line is that even if pokerstrategy is not getting a cut of that cake, chances are rake won't be lowered anyway, so yeah, I'm all for paying pokerstrategy which actually does something for the community instead of just sitting on their servers, counting the money and coming up retarded promotions to keep the players rake more.

I don't see a problem with the lifetime revenue model. PS introduced the players, and train them to play poker and rise up the stakes. We keep learning from PS and generating more rake through playing at higher stakes which PS have enabled us to reach through providing learning materials.

We make more for the poker rooms due to PS's help, so they should be paid for their services as long as we play and generate rake

Since pokerstars paid fulltilt debts , i think its pokerstars idea. Those new owners are totally related to pokerstars, and as we know that pokerstars are greedy fcks , that's probbly their shot. I think its gonna be like ps VIP levels , which is basicly useless for small time gamblers. Big Boys should have no worries.

This has been mentioned in other post but I would like to have my say too. I am a wee pit pissed off because of the email I received last week informing me of the retracking of FT accounts. When 888 were dropped from PS I was not informed by PS but by 888. The reason for this I believe was because when the contract with 888 was terminated (from what I have found out) 888 paid PS any money owed and said this is the new contract or you can go. So no real loss for PokerStrategy! With FT, PokerStrategy is still owed money from Pocket Kings(affiliate program) and was thinking they would sue after the FullTilt brand was bought( this happen to be Rational Group) to reclaim their money.(lol PS said they waited so players money would be protected, ya right)

With the deal Rational Group made with bankrupt FT through the DOJ they are not obligated (I believe) to pay any debts from Pocket Kings except players balances. Now with the retracking of old Pocket Kings accounts and making new account with all existing player from the old FT, PS has seen they will be receiving no more money under the old contract for future play, although a new deal will be made in the new year for FullTilt and PokerStars together and have seen that probably under the deal between Rational and DOJ they will not be able to get any money owed to them from the old FT.(Pocket Kings) I believe money owed to PS should be paid, by whom I don´t know.

Sending us emails to inform us of the retracking was ok but should be done with EVERY room and not just the ones that owe you money! I get the feeling with this thread and the emails, you’re trying to use us players to convince Rational to pay you debts from another company by suggesting that maybe we are getting a shit deal and should play elsewere. Personally for me I will probably benefit from the new arrangement and will not be taking any advice from a company owed money by the old FT on whether the new program is beneficial or not. When I want this info I know where to go.

Hi One12ver,

I can fully understand that you are upset about this.

I will try and explain the background to you.

PokerStrategy.com is only cost-free for the users because receives advertising commissions from poker rooms. A requirement for these commissions is that we sign an advertising agreement with each poker room, and those agreements sometimes limit it in how we can depict the partner or how we can react when certain things happen. It does not prevent us from doing everything possible behind the scenes, but there are some restrictions and what we can do in public. This is a very obvious downside of our business model, but without it, PokerStrategy.com could not be free to its members (and certainly not give free bankrolls) and would possibly not even exist.

With regards to Full Tilt Poker, they themselves have declared that they do not consider themselves liable for our contract with the old Full Tilt. As a result of that, potential contractual restrictions do not apply to us, and we can talk about the matter freely.

I hope it is understandable for you that we - given that we can in this case - voice our opinion about the de-tracking publically. It affects us negatively as a business and it also means that more than 485,000 PokerStrategy.com members are worse off than before.

Best regards,
Dominik

totaly agree.
Step 1: download new FTP software
Step 2: Cash out
Step 3: Start -> Control Panel -> Programs -> Uninstall a Program
Step 4: e-mail ftp to say how disappointed I am.

if they see things by numbers , thats the way to hurt them.

p.s. i had money on my full tilt account, and now they deleted it!. unacceptable.
thats not a relaunch.. They should change the name also and everything else.!

when is the relaunch??

6th November.

I think while some players may boycot FTP and simply stop playing there, the majority will return there and it'll result in a big loss for pokerstrategy. A shame, truly.

Hey!

I wrote my opinion to the Full Tilt Support, and I got their answer:
"As you may be aware The Rational Group, which also operates PokerStars, obtained certain assets of Full Tilt Poker as part of a settlement reached with the US Department of Justice Southern District of New York. This settlement excluded liabilities, including previous contractual agreements with affiliates such as PokerStrategy.

Without these contractual agreements in place PokerStrategy is no longer offering this service to Full Tilt Poker players.

We are currently working around the clock to get the new FullTiltPoker.com site up-and-running by November 6 when we will also be launching a new VIP and promotions program designed to award all Full Tilt Poker players and replace previous affiliate driven incentive programs."

Regards