Q2s 0,5/1

Hello Sir,

Yep, I think we can do that, however I think it's pointless, since checking 100% of our range is a) really close to optimal, b) keeps our range together, c) far easier to do than anything else (=> maximizing hourly, not EV).

My main reason is the following:

Board: Q♦J♥8♥ A♠
       Equity     Win     Tie
MP2    46.86%  45.27%   1.60% { our c/r range - see above }
MP3    53.14%  51.54%   1.60% { 88+, A7s+, K9s+, QTs+, JTs, T9s, 98s, A9o+, KTo+, QJo }

Also our opponent can easily raise any A in this spot, that is a good majority of his range. We don't have an uncapped range, since we have KT, T9, AA, QQ, JJ, so that's not a prototypical spot for donkchecking 100%, but I still think it's the best play given we'll get raised an awful lot, and honestly, I'd want to fold much more than optimal because of his perceived preflop range being so nutty on this board. Another thing to consider: will we have enough bluffs given that KT came in that was 16 combos from our 62 combo bluffing range (we also need c/r bluffs), etc.

So I think checking 100% here should be good, if not the best, it's really close, and if we have these kind of standard plays, we can add a couple tables more to maximize hourly. But if you have any suggestion or idea why we should still have a betting range here, I'm curious, so let me know.

And nobody is even contemplating folding this pile of shit before the flop?

There is only RIO here. Hitting the queen (which will happen only X% of the time, where I forgot what exactly X is) is a mixed blessing. I'd expect to win the small pots and lose the big pots. Particularly so because the opponent is LAG. The deuce is useless. The flush draws will be expensive. No FE, and no payoff feast on the river with a Q high flush. A suited 86 would be far superior to this.

I'd say the fold pre-flop is trivial.

/Johan =

I agree it's marginal, but I think against a looser player this can be defended. I think folding anything up from Q5s would be a mistake against someone who is not tighter than average, but honestly, there is not a big difference between Q4s and Q2s. Folding is definitely fine, and may also be good in a high-rake environment, or against really good LAGs. However, I definitely wouldn't say trivial fold.

(Maybe you missed that UTG is actually MP, because we're 5handed? Stupid converter...)

Originally posted by YohanN7
And nobody is even contemplating folding this pile of shit before the flop?

There is only RIO here. Hitting the queen (which will happen only X% of the time, where I forgot what exactly X is) is a mixed blessing. I'd expect to win the small pots and lose the big pots. Particularly so because the opponent is LAG. The deuce is useless. The flush draws will be expensive. No FE, and no payoff feast on the river with a Q high flush. A suited 86 would be far superior to this.

I'd say the fold pre-flop is trivial.

/Johan =

This is a bit of a NL attitude

First of all the raise is from the HJ so his range is going to be wider.

For example vs my HJ open Q2s has 36% equity so it's a marginally fine defend just based on equity (35% usually being the cutoff point form a pure equity standpoint) but the hand is also suited so gains post-flop playability so I'm ok defending here. In fact Q7s which most players would snap defend here only has 1% more equity.

In NL obviously you're not because if you flop top pair and get action you're screwed but that's not how FL works, the concept is there for sure but it's not as important.

If you are confident in your post-flop play defending here is fine.

I didn't observe that it was HJ, I actually thought it was UTG. I'd still probably fold. But, I can assure you that it is not my NL attitude to fold here every time.

I'll take yours and madorjan´s word for it though, that it is at least worth thinking about calling in FL versus a loose player. My main objection is that while we have some playability, not all of the playability may work as good as versus a normal opponent. Draws usually need some fold equity for instance.

If you are confident in your post-flop play defending here is fine.

I suppose that this is what my problem boils down to. I'm confident enough to play , say, Q5s, but not Q2s. Considering the surprisingly small equity difference between Q7s and Q2s you give, I should reconsider.

/Johan =