Now it's Speed Poker - LAG Styleee !!!

Originally posted by Tim64
I don't mind admitting that first time round, that 50 BI downswing basically made me give up sngs for 1+ years when the bigger picture shows that I should have just gritted my teeth and pushed on through.

GL!

Maybe,
My <can't remember how deep> downswing at SnGs put me off them so bad I still don't play them. I suck so bad at tourneys.

I do OK at cash though.

So I concluded it was NOT just variance, but a serious leak. More like a serious fountain of leaks.

I did OK at double-or-nothings, but found 'em boring.

So the big question is:
How does a player tell -- while in the middle of a deep downswing -- whether it is variance or they're playing badly?

Originally posted by Tim64
Gentari,

you asked for the above graph in BI. Here it is:

40 BI above ev at the end of the graph, but close enough to provide some comfort.

BI is indeed a better way to see your d/swing. Very common to have 20 BI ev downswings so don't get too disillusioned. This is why BRM is so important - b/c sometimes perfect play can still lead to day after day of losses.

In above graph, just after game 1000 is a 20BI EV downswing. And at game 1900 is 50 BI downswing (while EV was going steadily up). If you think of this happening at the $5s, it's the equivalent of a $100 EV d/sw and at $250 actual respectively.

It's useful to have this in mind because making headway in SnGs only happens with acceptance of this 'inbuilt ugliness' and perseverence in spite of it.

I don't mind admitting that first time round, that 50 BI downswing basically made me give up sngs for 1+ years when the bigger picture shows that I should have just gritted my teeth and pushed on through.

GL!

Thank you for taking the time to put this post together Tim, it has perked up my mood for sure

I need to feel well rolled for a step up I think, I have hit swings and given up before. I really want to get through this and so will push on with the 'challenge' at the $1 games mixing in some $2 games that load so slowly, until I am well rolled for another shot at $5+

Originally posted by VorpalF2F

So the big question is:
How does a player tell -- while in the middle of a deep downswing -- whether it is variance or they're playing badly?

For me I feel making mistakes is the indicator and being honest with oneself on that side is key.

Variance is there, we all know it, but mistakes are too. I am trying to be critical of my game and spend a lot of time looking at my exit hands (or the ones that cripple my stack) and see if I played them properly.

I find myself calling shoves with TT v a NIT and think what are you doing when I see QQ+, AK...

Update:

I have just been in hospital for surgery so have been a little bit out of it. I played a few $1 games on Poker770 but not much of a grind.

I did play some Home Games on Stars with the zimmers which was fun, although asking while in a hand if a pair was any good wasn't probably the best strategy in the 2-7 Draw game.

By sheer fluke and some clueless betting I managed to win the 1st ever mixed tourney I played. It seems knowing the rules of a game may be a hindrance !!!

Will probably play a few fun games later as I am on some wicked pain relief at the moment...

BR: £49ish

Lost every flip, can't be arsed with the game any more, it suck balls.

Mental Game: not great.

I will no doubt wake up in a better mood and have another go but it really does seem pretty pointless.

Keep at it mate, hopefully you run better tomorrow

Originally posted by Rick21
Keep at it mate, hopefully you run better tomorrow

Thanks Rick,

Still on a down, but feeling of acceptance is with me. I need to run 1k games of the same stake/type and see what comes of it.

The weekly review will show exactly what has happened, warts n all.

For now I have achieved volume, ICM Training goal and had an operation, so not a bad week

After ranted/venting on the zimmers skype and generally feeling pissed off with the poker world I got some good advice and got back into the saddle.

As you can see things worked out well in the end.

My goal to break this cycle of doom n gloom is to play 1k games at the same stake level and see what I am managing. The cards will do their thing, but as long as I am shoving in the correct spots and making good plays thn I can do no better.

I will do a full week review later on, but felt happy about yesterday so thought I would record it here.

Ty Tim64 and the other old farts ♠_biggrin:

Originally posted by Gentari
Ty Tim64 and the other old farts ♠_biggrin:

My pleasure. Just keep imagining that 52% coin.

^^

I wouldn't completely write off the possibility of moving up during your 1k games if things go really well, but as a base plan, I like it

Of course you got good advice from the zimmers!
Old age + treachery > youth + skill
every time.

Of course, the treachery and skill are reversed, but the equation still stands.

Way to go...
--VS

BR: £59.49

[ ] BRM: 50 BI for next level
[x] Volume: >50 6max SNGs
[x] Mental Game: Review if graded a session below 'A'
[-] Hand Review: Post min 1 hand in eval forum each day
[x] Training: Read/Watch 1 item of training material daily
[x] Training: >100 hands in ICM Trainer

Played: 80
1st: 13
2nd: 21
Lost: 46

ROI: -22.7%
EV ROI: -10.0%

As you can see from the posts above I hit a downswing and tilted a bit. I really think the fact I managed to hit a rough patch just after I decided to jump to $5 games hit my confidence hard.

I returned to $1 games exclusively (no more £1 games) and have the 1k game plan in play at the moment. I may move up, but not worried about doing it too early.

The graph below is of my whole week, including games on other poker sites so you can see why I was a little worried/frustrated. I think the player pool at $1 games fold too much in the late game meaning I can get to the money easier than in the $5 games, although I bailed before I could really get a good sample. Something to think about in the future as my return to $1 games has brought about a return of my run good (46 games for 32.6% ROI)

My hand review goal has been rubbish this week, not posted 1 so need to up my game there. The rest is looking ok with volume, mental game (although not good), ICM Training and PS Materials going well even though I was in hospital this week I still managed to play a lot.

I also managed to make nearly 25 PS Ststus points/day average this month which means I am on course for 700+ which means I keep GOLD for another month.

I would like to thank the Zimmers for their help this week, it was fun playing Thursday

BR: £52.92

Played: 21
1st: 2
2nd: 3
Lost: 16

Mental Game - B

Felt poor in a couple of spots as the flips went against me, I managed to identify I was being affected by the beats and took some time out to have a drink and read some posts.

I then returned for another session and felt fine, the results didn't improve, but that isn't the point. I am slowly coming to grips with the idea that no matter how hard I try, there will be days where nothing I do allows me to win. There are just too many times where I am correctly shoving A8s and finding either AQ or KJ and getting beaten either by the initial cards or the run out.

Once I truly grasp that concept and let go of my need to win every time I play, I think I will turn an important corner in my poker career.

Training

I need to watch Parodiq's videos again and do a minimum of 50 ICM Trainer Hands each day. I am letting the current poor results stop me playing optimally. I am second guessing too much, not shoving in some spots I know to be ICM +ev spots.

This is important as I can't let emotion rule the game here, it will only degrade it. If a play is +ev, I must make it, simples.

Much poker maturity in the above post. Me likeeee

Originally posted by Tim64
Much poker maturity in the above post. Me likeeee

Slowly getting there Tim, your post and graph have made me see that minimal errors still can lead to both negative Red & Green lines for a period of time.

There will be times where for whatever reason the deck runs cold and shoving QTo becomes the correct play but being called by AQs is just how it goes. Red line suffers but it cannot work out the in game issues, it is after all just maths.

I used to trade horses on Betfair and the markets are incredible. The moves often made no sense, a horse would go from 2/1 to 3/1 and win or from 4/1 to Evens and lose. I tried for months to come up with a mathematical solution to this, and in the end decided that the horses would do what they do, you just have to be more correct than the odds to make some profit.

I think the past week or so has been useful from an emotional stand point, the money in the account is not an issue, I can deposit more, the wins and losses are of no consequence as stated above, so simply putting in volume, ensuring my ICM game is sound and not playing poorly (through either mistakes or tilt) should put me in a long term winning position.

Perhaps the goal should be to see what my max up & down swings can be? the idea being to make fun of variance, not be upset by it...

I was mildly amused by the guy calling my K4s shove with T4o and winning, perhaps a log of the most idiotic play of the day by me or an opponent would be fun.

My pick of the day would be QQ v T3o. EP raise on level 2 and the guy shoves over me, note was 'prone to 3bet shove light' ... doh!!!

I was also very surprised that 99 v Q9s was as close as 64/36 which with the stack depths was probably a good call by the villain, at the time I couldn't believe it, but obviously I would have been super happy had the flop not had the Q.

BR: £52.53

Played: 12
1st: 2
2nd: 3
Lost: 7

Mental Game - B

Although I am fairly convinced I need to just play on and things will turn round, it is just boring having so many setups and suck outs. In game I played well and feel my game is fairly good, just need a fair wind and off I go.

I spoke to a friend yesterday who has been following a challenge thread involving a SNE on Stars making headway from Micro SNGs to £100k... 2.5k games in and he is breakeven !!!

There is either hope for us all, of no hope what so ever <---- is that 1 word?

Hand of the day:

Shoved CO ATo when 4 handed for 6 BB, got called by BB with T7o

I also played a few games on Stars, some hypers and some home games I play on a Tuesday and did ok.

I also noticed I had a few FPPs so enetered a 20 man sng satty to the Sunday Storm, amazing how stupid some people are, 6 paid and 7 remain when the shorty (but still able to do some good) shoves K6o into 2 players, 1 of which was an active big stack who called with Ax and won. $11 t$s in the kitty for some fun.

I may play more Satellites as they are fairly easy to make money from, not a bad way of getting away from grinding the 6max sngs on iPoker.

That may be a problem in itself, I am looking at ways to not play too many sngs at the moment, not sure of the reason, I think putting it all down to running a bit pants is easy, but probably doesn't tell the whole story. I think I am naturally a restless type who likes a bit of variety in my poker life. The main issue is that iPoker games load so slowly, but I really want to play some there as I want to retain the Gold Status for the materials, I feel my game is improving and as such the Poker770 account needs to be used as it is my only tracked account.

I managed to post a couple of hands in the eval forum too, a couple of passive spots where I was not happy. I need to push on and do the ICM Training daily to keep me on target, I failed today...no there are 30 minutes left...gonna do some now

edit: Done 50 ICM hands 82% correct. May add this as a daily goal and record along with BR and games played etc.

I know how you feel mate, sometimes poker feels like your constantly being setup to lose, but just keep plugging away and you will hit an upswing at some point, as long as you keep playing your A game and have the bankroll to sustain the downswing.

The satellites are a good way of boosting your bankroll, the thing is a lot of people are crazy in them which makes it easier for you to win. I think this has something to do with them seeing it as freeroll, but what they dont realise is that is actually their rakeback they are missing out on

Good luck at the tables

Originally posted by Rick21
I know how you feel mate, sometimes poker feels like your constantly being setup to lose, but just keep plugging away and you will hit an upswing at some point, as long as you keep playing your A game and have the bankroll to sustain the downswing.

The satellites are a good way of boosting your bankroll, the thing is a lot of people are crazy in them which makes it easier for you to win. I think this has something to do with them seeing it as freeroll, but what they dont realise is that is actually their rakeback they are missing out on

Good luck at the tables

Thanks Rick, seems fun can be had with this game after all...

I was waiting 10 minutes for a $1 6max to load on iPoker when I decided to play some HU and 6max cash (just watched the 1st Mind The Gap video). HU went poorly down 2 stacks pretty quick, AK v A2 obv A on the flop pand 2 on the turn (couldn't have helped could it????) and then A7s on a nice flop that never improved v KK. I managed to get soem back and then played soem 6max cash. Managed to double up there which was great.

The $1 game finally loaded and I managed to get a weird situation, JJ in the BB and all players in front limped. Now to me they are never strong, but what to do? Min raise? no way, flat? no way ---- how about a decent raise? well 1 caller means they are all along for the ride so I shove.

This is probably a high variance line, but what the hell they are folding KQo, A8 and the 22-66 type hands very often. I am infront of anything that limps unless anyone is stupid enough to limp a 6 way pot with QQ+.

So there I go and get called by A4o !!!!!

Doubled up and won the SNG, but A4o come on, even a gold fish knows this play is never going to be profitable right?

Anyway it worked out, but I can't get any Calculator to show me what I should have done there... any ideas?

Originally posted by Gentari
Thanks Rick, seems fun can be had with this game after all...

I was waiting 10 minutes for a $1 6max to load on iPoker when I decided to play some HU and 6max cash (just watched the 1st Mind The Gap video). HU went poorly down 2 stacks pretty quick, AK v A2 obv A on the flop pand 2 on the turn (couldn't have helped could it????) and then A7s on a nice flop that never improved v KK. I managed to get soem back and then played soem 6max cash. Managed to double up there which was great.

The $1 game finally loaded and I managed to get a weird situation, JJ in the BB and all players in front limped. Now to me they are never strong, but what to do? Min raise? no way, flat? no way ---- how about a decent raise? well 1 caller means they are all along for the ride so I shove.

This is probably a high variance line, but what the hell they are folding KQo, A8 and the 22-66 type hands very often. I am infront of anything that limps unless anyone is stupid enough to limp a 6 way pot with QQ+.

So there I go and get called by A4o !!!!!

Doubled up and won the SNG, but A4o come on, even a gold fish knows this play is never going to be profitable right?

Anyway it worked out, but I can't get any Calculator to show me what I should have done there... any ideas?

To be honest mate usually an A is good in heads up but still pretty standard to lose to a 3 outer Can't count the amount of times my KK, QQ or JJ lose to AX hand but thats just standard

Well JJ is strong at 6 max and considering there were no raises you are probably good most of the time, because at that level if they have AA,KK or QQ they usually just shove themselves. A4 is terrible to call with, maybe he thought u were shoving KQ or KJ and was willing to take a flip and knew that worst case scenario he still had 30%. Still not a good position to put yourself in!! At least you won though, thats the main thing

I would have probably done the same as you to be honest, shove and hope its good (because most the time it probably will be), do you have skype?

Hi Rick,

Yeah HU Ax is in for me against most, this was early and multi way limped pot...

Skype is - gentari

Feel free to drop me a line mate