Broken RNG

And it still how does poker software determines PREFLOP who is weaker PLAYER and who is stronger PLAYER, preflop without action made?

6 - players at the table.

Nobody has put money in yet, except BB, SB.

seat1 - A A
seat2 - J 2
seat3 - random
seat4 - random
seat5 - random
seat6 - random

Flop - A J 7
Turn - 8
River - T

This is how you think the software does? Like how does it determine then that after AA have raised, that J2 is going to raise or call? I don't get your logic. Just face the bad beats, because they always will be a part of poker, want it or not. Eventually your AA will hold up against 72o.

there was talk before about poker rooms detecting players and segregating it,you can find it for yourself...rooms know in cent how much you pay rake,how much you win/lose and how you run,it wouldnt be very hard...

there is a point somwhere,when you come where is important,bublle,and you lost w AA vs J2o...and J2 is losing player,and he hits his r/r flush,he wins,get money,you lose,turn another...how you can PROVE that is rigged somehow???

apperently you CANT,as nobody have acces to make such things,PERIOD...

but,i said before,if that isnt concern who wins or lose for poker rooms,why isnt there some tests and controls to PROVE IT???to make straight forwared that there isnt any possiblle cheats...

and i dont have nothing against losing,its part of game,even BAD BEATS,but whats too much,its too much...i presume you arent a great player,it stands out from your attitude when spoken...i bet you reraise people with last trash and try to bullie them playing as IVEY OR ISILDUR...apperentlly,you ARENT on other side of those bad beats,cause if you were a good player,whom get to lose quit frequently from most stupidiest DONK,holding last trash,in crucial spot,you wouldnt trash talk so much...EASY GAME...

MY challenge always stays,show what you got,later when you show that you can crush me,perhapse your opinion becomes more important...beside,if you dont like what we say and disagree with the subject,there is another intresting threads here to visit also:)

Great deducting skills Sherlock. I see great wisdom in your posts! You described so well the type of a player I am... Honestly... thrilled! I must probably not speak again or some other secrets may be revealed!

umad

you can speak,ofc,its open discussion,but all your post was just poking at people,you didnt put any good reason for what you stand,all you do,is making fun of people...

so,as a gentlman and a player,i challenge you at HUSNG

we are just trying to point out what we think is unappropriate in some cases,and i am sorry if i offended you,that wasnt my inntention,i was just trying to be sarcastic with you

But sarcasm is actually done when mean to offend other people? Something doesn't make sense in this thread.

I don't make fun of people. I just don't see any EV decision in whining that you guys THINK something isn't right about online poker. ♦ It's very simple. If you don't like it, don't play or just face it as a man an keep winning, if you can of course.

so,we should judge from your post that you are a winner??so obv,you dont have other job,beside posting here,rather then playing and taking peoples money

beside,i dont whine,as there isnt any use of that.i simply asked WHY there isnt more checks,tests or whatever,so that no talk about RIGGED would ever emerge...judging by my life expirience,and i am 37,if there isnt something,there must be a REASON WHY NOT...

i dont want to go back and talk about AB,UP or FTP,i just suggested there isnt any PROOF that things are correct,i am sorry,all you get is some site;CIGITEL confirmed all is O.K...there was also some guy posting about that other company whom rejected to be on that statment as they didnt NEVER CHECK LIVE...you can find it somewhere...

my opinion is that poker room HAVE a REASON why they are in some forsaken place and there ISNT ANY CHECKS...you can have your opinion as well and i disagree that is TAX matter...

and yes,i heard that STARS are only employing SAINTS,ANGELS AND VIRGINS

Originally posted by janushr
i am 37

My deepest condolences... I thought you are 18 based on your posts.

Can you guys please open a different thread and flame each other there? I don't want it to get locked or spammed.

I'm not saying that it is rigged but let's say, for the sake of my example, that RNG is actually 'rigged' towards worse players. So worse player have a better chance to win a hand. Also, bear in mind that I have some programming knowledge and I know what could be done with code generally and how complex can it be (I don't know how RNG code looks like but I presume it works on a similar basis).

I'll first address the matter of how would PS know which player is which:
How do you know which player is bad or good? Tracking software collects data from those players and based on some stat ranges you can see who is good or bad. PS got every single hand from every player that have played on PS.
Which hand are we approaching soon? Was is 100 Billion-th? That's how many hands.

And how do those 'companies' test this exactly? Unless they take 2 actual accounts (who played for some time, so their 'status' could be established), go into a rakeless HU cash game and endlessly go all-in one vs another and see what happens, I don't see how their test can be relevant.
Unless the hands are dealt to actual players, these tests are pretty much meaningless.

This next point is very important. About 'Why would they rig it...?":

Listen now, people do all sorts of stupid shit for money. People are killed for a wallet or some money from the cash register. Unemployed people are unemployed because companies need bigger profit. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't every war in the history of ever, fought for some material gain like natural riches, gold mines, oil etc etc? People are being killed or their lives ruined for money.
Why would rich actors avoid paying taxes even though they'll go to jail? Money makes you do stupid things.

Now, let's get back to PS. Someone offers them the opportunity to earn let's say 30% more money which is god knows how much, with one catch: This can't be proven because you can always blame the bad luck. Some catch, right?

Honestly, if you collect all the stupid things people have done for money and rank them by stupidity, rigging online poker would be the least stupid by a far margin.

For now I'll just answer someone who said that my downswing is 'not impossible, merely improbable'.

I'll use my earlier simulations for an explanation:

What this particular simulation means is that if a Million people played 32.000 SnGs, there would be 400 people with downswing of around 1000 BIs and less then 20 people with the downswing of around 1300 BIs (can't really tell based on 0.0% but I estimated based on the progression trend).

I'd need to run 10 Million simulations for 0% ROI to appear and my downswing still wouldn't be there. If 10 Million people played meaningful number of SnGs, exactly ZERO people would have my downswing. Bear in mind that the number of players who played meaningful number of SnGs can be counted in thousands and not tens of millions.

I'd call that pretty much impossible wouldn't you agree?

There is an assumption here that your actual ROI is 5.13%

What if it's not?

Then that sort of downswing is definitely possible.

I am not arguing against you, just posing some questions.

The higher your ROI, the bigger number of BIs you can go under EV and smaller number of BIs you can go over EV. That is a general rule.

At 0% there should be equal chance to go both ways. Equal chance to go, let's say 1000 BIs under EV or over EV.

At 5.13% which I simulated, you can see that there is a 1% chance of going +1.87% ROI above EV, while there is a whooping 7.5% chance to go 2.13% ROI below EV.

And that dis-balance goes to the favor of downswing, the higher ROI you got.

I could put myself to -5% ROI if you want but that would favor my case even more. Check it out for yourself if you don't believe me, try the simulator.

hey,i didnt flame nobody,we have a bit friendly chat...i ll try not to go into disccussions off topic...

i just want to say,as by this article how PARTY is segregating winning and weaker players,who knows what happening what we dont know???i dont want to make prejudice,i just suggested that more CHECKS,TESTs or what ever is needed,so that everybody is sure that a FAIR game is running,nothing else...

Originally posted by VladimirN
I'd call that pretty much impossible wouldn't you agree?

Heh, 20 out of 1M impossible? No, it happens with a frequency of about 1/50k. Improbable, but not impossible.

Less likely events happen all the time.

Great start of the month:

32 BIs under with 22 set-ups against me and 13 in my favor.

Keep digging your grave Stars. Keep digging it.
Hopefully I'll bust my roll soon and end this charade.

Originally posted by w34z3l

Originally posted by VladimirN
I'd call that pretty much impossible wouldn't you agree?

Heh, 20 out of 1M impossible? No, it happens with a frequency of about 1/50k. Improbable, but not impossible.

Less likely events happen all the time.

You should go back and reread those last two paragraphs. Or did you skip the last one on purpose?

Hint: 20 in 1M is not even close to my downswing.

Originally posted by VladimirN
You should go back and reread those last two paragraphs. Or did you skip the last one on purpose?

Hint: 20 in 1M is not even close to my downswing.

To be honest, you don't seem entirely sure what the exact likelihood of your downswing is. The only figure I saw quoted was 20 out of 1M.

Either way you are suggesting that a non-zero probability is "impossible" which is ridiculous if you have any concept of how probability/variance works.

I had to point this out since I assume this is levelled at me ----->

Originally posted by VladimirN
For now I'll just answer someone who said that my downswing is 'not impossible, merely improbable'.

Tbh, I'm not overly interested in this thread since it turned into a "poker is rigged" thread, so leave me out of it please. I just had to respond to a comment that was aimed directly at me.

i would also like to know more about it,about what you think about this variables and probabilities...

if i contributed in any way that discussion is going into rigged thread way,i am sorry,that wasnt my inntention at all,so please,help and answer the guy,thanks...

and please,enlight us whom arent so smart,please,so we can better understand how all that work,thanks

w34z3l I love having some meaningful discussions, mainly because I can learn something new. I'm happy admitting being wrong because that means I did learn something from it.

Maybe I'm using some scientific terms which might be confusing so I will quote myself in hopes of explaining it better.

I'll use my earlier simulations for an explanation:

What this particular simulation means is that if a Million people played 32.000 SnGs, there would be 400 people with downswing of around 1000 BIs and less then 20 people with the downswing of around 1300 BIs (can't really tell based on 0.0% but I estimated based on the progression trend).

I'd need to run 10 Million simulations for 0% ROI to appear and my downswing still wouldn't be there. If 10 Million people played meaningful number of SnGs, exactly ZERO people would have my downswing. Bear in mind that the number of players who played meaningful number of SnGs can be counted in thousands and not tens of millions.

I'd call that pretty much impossible wouldn't you agree?

I am sure what the likelihood is. It is 0/1.000.000 at this moment at least, which is, as you know, 0%.
I didn't do 10 mil simulations but my math says it is 0/10.000.000 also. I will do 5 mil simulations just because it would take 12 hours for 10 mil and I don't have that much time tonight, just to prove that it's at least 0/5.000.000.

Now, I'm not saying it is rigged. But If If the police finds a murder weapon with John's fingerprints on it, John's flesh under victims nails combined with John's hairs on him. 7 witnesses saw John stab the victim repeatedly and it was all caught on the videotape then what am I to conclude. I am just using proof that I got to make some intelligent meaningful conclusions.

I will post again just to clear up a few issues with interpretation of statistics here.

The probability of your downswing can never be zero, even if you ran twice as bad as you did in this sample.

Let's think about how we should interpret the output of your ROI simulator though.

Firstly how many decimal places is percentage column accurate to?

It looks suspiciously like it is accurate to 1 decimal place. This means that when the probability of a certain ROI is less than 0.049 (1/2041) it's going to get rounded down to zero. This doesn't mean the probability is actually zero though! How could it be!! A downswing of any length is possible - the only question is how frequently it actually occurs.

0.0% according to this simulator is certainly not to be interpreted as 0/1,000,000. For all we know it could be as high as 0.049% of 1,000,000, which is as many as 489/1,000,000.

First this:

Thing is, I'm not talking about the ROI which you see on the list. Based on the number of BIs I'm trailing behind, my ROI should be -0.5% on that list, between red and brown arrow on the previous picture.

What I'm saying is, if there is even one case of my kind of swing, it would appear on the list as 0.0. But it is not there, which means it is 0 out of 5.000.000.

Fine it might not be zero ever, maybe it's 1 in 10^14. Are you saying that's not enough of a proof?