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I am not very good, but in my honest opinion people luck out, and it happens..

like if you have AA and someone has 23s (hearts) and u go to flop and flop shows Ah6c8h the villian might shove in hopes of hearts, and he will probably hit hearts 30-40% of the time (not sure of the real math << donk), it's not rigged, just unlucky.

There are many examples where donks luck out in live. Look at Laborda the brazilian in his 25s hitting straights out of nowhere in the river(and raising for no reason in flop + turn), in online poker you would automatically say rigged, but what about live then?


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Up from 76 to 92 BIs down in March.

From now on, I'm not answering any posts which say it's all in my head and it's all a matter of chance and bad luck yada yada.
I mean you can comment, but you will be ignored. Only useful, constructive posts please.

Now, I am trying to clear 200$ bonus unless I go bust of course. After that, I'll do that DB analysis I said couple of posts ago.

EDIT: Also, I think that 'I couldn't do anything with the lawsuit' is not true. You're just protecting them as a business partner. No offence, that is just what I think.

Fun Fact:
Now that my downswing is 100 BIs and 600 SnGs richer, the odds of it happening dropped drastically.
It was something like 1 in 52 billion. Now it's 1 in 1 trillion.
(don't blame me if w34z3l's way of calculation is not correct)

Not that I need anything past 1 in a million but it's still fun to know what kind of 'accidents' can happen.


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Rihard4a
Joined: 08.09.2010

Originally posted by VladimirN
Up from 76 to 92 BIs down in March.

From now on, I'm not answering any posts which say it's all in my head and it's all a matter of chance and bad luck yada yada.
I mean you can comment, but you will be ignored. Only useful, constructive posts please.

Now, I am trying to clear 200$ bonus unless I go bust of course. After that, I'll do that DB analysis I said couple of posts ago.

EDIT: Also, I think that 'I couldn't do anything with the lawsuit' is not true. You're just protecting them as a business partner. No offence, that is just what I think.
Fun Fact:
Now that my downswing is 100 BIs and 600 SnGs richer, the odds of it happening dropped drastically.
It was something like 1 in 52 billion. Now it's 1 in 1 trillion.
(don't blame me if w34z3l's way of calculation is not correct)

Not that I need anything past 1 in a million but it's still fun to know what kind of 'accidents' can happen.

After reading this comment I just had to post one back again. I, who has no business contractions with PokerStars nor tracked account on pokerstrategy or any other site with PokerStars, think you are wasting your time with the lawsuit, because you will never ever ever ever x100 prove that RNG is rigged, I don't want to make this post that long, so as it was discussed earlier.

Rihard out.

EDIT: However, no! Wait! Actually do it, I don't mind. We can't really stop you from doing things, we can just advise. So do what you think you should do. If you go for the lawsuit, I hope it gets televised on PokerStars.tv.
:coolface:


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Jafreiteris
Joined: 21.05.2008

Originally posted by Mat55
I am not very good, but in my honest opinion people luck out, and it happens..

like if you have AA and someone has 23s (hearts) and u go to flop and flop shows Ah6c8h the villian might shove in hopes of hearts, and he will probably hit hearts 30-40% of the time (not sure of the real math << donk), it's not rigged, just unlucky.

There are many examples where donks luck out in live. Look at Laborda the brazilian in his 25s hitting straights out of nowhere in the river(and raising for no reason in flop + turn), in online poker you would automatically say rigged, but what about live then?

Well in real life .45 beats fullhouses


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Originally posted by VladimirN
Up from 76 to 92 BIs down in March.

From now on, I'm not answering any posts which say it's all in my head and it's all a matter of chance and bad luck yada yada.
I mean you can comment, but you will be ignored. Only useful, constructive posts please.

Now, I am trying to clear 200$ bonus unless I go bust of course. After that, I'll do that DB analysis I said couple of posts ago.

EDIT: Also, I think that 'I couldn't do anything with the lawsuit' is not true. You're just protecting them as a business partner. No offence, that is just what I think.

Fun Fact:
Now that my downswing is 100 BIs and 600 SnGs richer, the odds of it happening dropped drastically.
It was something like 1 in 52 billion. Now it's 1 in 1 trillion.
(don't blame me if w34z3l's way of calculation is not correct)

Not that I need anything past 1 in a million but it's still fun to know what kind of 'accidents' can happen.

Have you ever thought that your all ins are terrible? Like your always going all in with the worst cards etc and that's why you're losing most of them?

It's all in your head, and the fact that you don't want to think that means you're just delusional, you lost money, time to quit or go to another websites.. lawsuits take forever and would cost more then what you spent losing on poker so I see no point in trying.


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metza
Joined: 28.01.2012

Originally posted by VladimirN

Fun Fact:
Now that my downswing is 100 BIs and 600 SnGs richer, the odds of it happening dropped drastically.
It was something like 1 in 52 billion. Now it's 1 in 1 trillion.
(don't blame me if w34z3l's way of calculation is not correct)

Not that I need anything past 1 in a million but it's still fun to know what kind of 'accidents' can happen.

There are 50 million registered players on Pokerstars so you very very much do need "anything past 1 in a million." If you show a 1 in 1 million downswing that's not gonna mean shit in a 50 million player pool.

1 in 1 trillion is getting somewhere, although I am not sure how you figured this, would be interested to see the actual calculations. But again, I think you're still not understanding that anything is possible in a probabilistic game, and therefore even ten people getting insanely unlucky cannot prove anything beyond reasonable doubt. Would someone winning the lottery two weeks in a row prove that the lottery is rigged? That would be 1 in 169 trillion, but everyone would be far more likely to assume this person was incredibly lucky than that the lottery was rigged. So you can see how 1 in 1 trillion downswing even if your numbers are correct, doesn't really prove anything.


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Originally posted by Mat55
Have you ever thought that your all ins are terrible? Like your always going all in with the worst cards etc and that's why you're losing most of them?

It's all in your head, and the fact that you don't want to think that means you're just delusional, you lost money, time to quit or go to another websites.. lawsuits take forever and would cost more then what you spent losing on poker so I see no point in trying.

Hi friend, you are totally right, I just went insane from being too bad. I guess I just couldn't ignore such a truthful and unbiased post and even though it hurts my heart, I have to concur.

Might I have your Stars nick so I can see you play and learn from the best?

EDIT: Actually, scratch that. I see you started playing poker a month ago. When you play more then 3.000 hands, then I might even start hearing your 'advice'.


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janushr
Joined: 29.08.2008

vladimir,about lawsuit,i think its slim chances as you signed binding contract with them(me and all also),and should first carefully read T&C and see what it says...then you come back and answer me here...ok??

as there is still some posibbilities,as for METZA;not everything is possiblle in this game,as i gave another example in another thread,what if poker rooms decide that you suddenlly now win w 22 vs AA 82% of time???is that still poker,is this correct to be true???so,if he can show for example,that he loses w AA 82%,i think that would be teriblle wrong,false,unfair and criminal????so,in THAT case he would have some ground for legal lawsuit...as i am tired of people saying;yes,you can lose hundred times in a row with aces and thats possiblle????NO,ITS NOT POSSIBLLE...in that case,poker room would be cheating and scamming his customers...IMHO...

as for your determination are you a fish,donk or perhapse still something else,i challange you to winner first to 5 minimum BI sng???we are friends,and you know my contacts,you can check my nick and say if i am worty oponnent for you :f_biggrin:

LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!!!!!!!!!!(updates will be in this thread :f_cool:)


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Originally posted by Mat55
Have you ever thought that your all ins are terrible? Like your always going all in with the worst cards etc and that's why you're losing most of them?

It's all in your head, and the fact that you don't want to think that means you're just delusional, you lost money, time to quit or go to another websites.. lawsuits take forever and would cost more then what you spent losing on poker so I see no point in trying.

Actually, fuck it. I can't keep quiet on this one. I hope I won't seem to harsh though.

You sir are playing poker for a month and you feel like you should give some 'advice' and 'opinions' thinking you're better then me? Time to quit? lol You should go and learn to play, and come back after you played more then a thousand hands.

First of all, this what my graph looks like on a day of normal luck (2 days actually), with the same number of set-ups in both directions:

13:13 in set-ups... red line is at... umm 25% ROI, considering I played 7s? Well I'm not saying I'm 25% ROI but I'm definitely a winning player with 5% ROI or more. I might have been just slightly lucky in a sense that my good hands actually paid off instead of me losing them or just getting folded to.

This is what happens when I flop an ace with AK and someone actually have something worse to call me with.
This is what happens when I flop a set and I'm not miraculously beat by the river 4 times in a row.
This is what happens when I'm HU with a great pushing hand and NOT run into AA or KK 10 times per day and lose 70% of my HUs due to some horrible chance.
This is what happens when I flop a set and not have 4 spades on the board on the turn.
This is what happens when I have AA and the board is not 789T with 3 hearts.

I could go on but, your feeble mind wouldn't understand what I'm talking about (pointing to Mat). Fact is, you're probably running hot like hell and you don't even know it. How would you when you play for a month.

EDIT: Also this again

Originally posted by Mat55
Have you ever thought that your all ins are terrible? Like your always going all in with the worst cards etc and that's why you're losing most of them?

This goes to show how little do you know what downswing even is. It has nothing to do with what kind of hands I'm pushing with. It's about how many hands was I supposed to win and how many did I actually win. And I'm winning much less then I'm supposed to. I bet you're one of those that thinks AA vs 72s should win each time instead of 'just' 83%. You don't know odds, you don't know what downswing is, you're generalizing and coming to stupid conclusions...

Friendly advice: You should just keep quiet if you don't know what the hell you're talking about.


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Anyways, I cleared my bonus and today I'll go through my DB and see how often did I flop a set, a pair... how many times did my flush get beat, how many times did board go solid color when I flopped a great hand, how many times did I have AT+ HU and went into a hand that dominates me (and vice versa), how many times everything pretty much. And then I'll compare with the % of which it should have happened.

Now about the lawsuit, I might not be able to do anything with the math of my downswing because it can be attributed to chance, but here is what I can do:

I can use my downswing and the chance of it happening, to acquire the warrant for acquisition of all the hands from PS where you can actually see all the hole cards of each player (master HHs? like the ones you see in some major PS tourney final table replay). Then we would analyze those hands (that have been actually dealt) and search for patterns there. Perfect RNG test.

Any problem with my idea, lawyers?


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This is an interesting thread. I'm fairly convinced that you are as you say running like total crap, however I'm not convinced that you're running as bad as you're making out. Here's my thoughts:

In your first post, you show a graph with 15 games played and an error in the EV line, which you've then taken and extrapolated across all of your tournament results. This is a faulty assumption to make. You can see just by looking at the graph that although the EV line is below your winnings line despite no all-ins, it does rise closer to the winnings line after some of the tournaments you've played, so the error may well balance itself out to some extent. Even if that weren't the case, the margin of error varies from game to game regardless, so you may well have unintentionally taken a sample from a few games where the error was high, and then assumed it was that value for the rest of your games, when it was actually much lower for the others on average, and may even have a net error of zero overall (unlikely based on the sample you've shown, but possible).

The set-ups bit is also debatable. You can use the same criteria both for and against, but your playing style and your ability to read your opponents is going to make a difference in some of these situations. You get it in with JJ on JA5 and he flips over AA, fair enough, but according to your own criteria if you were playing a super tight guy who only bets with the nuts, you had JT and the board runs out AA2JJ and he bets all three streets and you get it in on the river, you'd presumably count that as a setup against you, but it's possible to get away from it. If you get it in bad and suckout, do you still record it as a setup? Or if they suck out on you? If so you should be removing these too because they should be reflected in your EV line. In addition, the assumptions you make about cashing having lost due to a setup are going to be subject to variance regardless, the most accurate way to go would be to look at your chip EV in the given situation, assuming you double up.

I assume that you then use your personally adjusted ITM% for the simulator, which doesn't show the figure for where you're actually at because the ITM% stats that you've given are erroneous.

Now don't get me wrong, seriously, you've said you're running 470 BI below EV over 32000 games according to HEM, I believe that, and I sympathise with you because that alone is pretty soulcrushing, I'd go nuts if it was me. And maybe you're running fairly bad in coolers too. But I think to take some data, make fairly bold assumptions about it, and then say you're 1838 BI under is not going to be correct, for reasons I, and a few others, have said.

All things said, I wish you the best of luck if you continue grinding, and hope you go on an outrageous heater sometime soon :)


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janushr
Joined: 29.08.2008

dont be harsh to people being nice to you...even if they play for a month,you never know how people play...me for instance,i was FT as soon as i start,MTT of 500-800 ppl...three days in a row....then tried to withdraw,just to find out that m friend(who maked all that registring thing,that was my first room ever,at BWIN,and he put in my name as a NICK,and as i didnt have any credit card,it was his mother,so he added his surname,so i became janus hrstic;)..and i was first two times 2 at half dollar or dollar,cant remeber and then 5 on 5$ event,and beside that i menage to get into thier promo for some crazy paradise island,and lost 3handed w same stack w 77 vs AJ,he hits J river:(,winning first ticket out of 3000 people to main event and there prolly another 300,400...if i win that hand,i would definatly had different carreer as now,but...its life...check my nick,at BWIN or STARS...

and you didnt answer me at all :f_biggrin:


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@hendo2000

Best post so far. The others should take a look at your post and learn something from it.
I will take my time to answer you and make further and more accurate analysis of my downswing when I have some spare time. I don't have enough of it at this moment.

But for now, I'll just say that my downswing can be much much lower and it would still be good for what I need it for.

Originally posted by janushr
vladimir,about lawsuit,i think its slim chances as you signed binding contract with them(me and all also),and should first carefully read T&C and see what it says...then you come back and answer me here...ok??

Do you know that it says something, or are you wondering yourself?

Originally posted by janushr
as for your determination are you a fish,donk or perhapse still something else,i challange you to winner first to 5 minimum BI sng???we are friends,and you know my contacts,you can check my nick and say if i am worty oponnent for you :f_biggrin:

LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!!!!!!!!!!(updates will be in this thread :f_cool:)

Ah, this challenge is meant for me? HU? I don't really play classic HUs.


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metza
Joined: 28.01.2012

Originally posted by janushr
as there is still some posibbilities,as for METZA;not everything is possiblle in this game,as i gave another example in another thread,what if poker rooms decide that you suddenlly now win w 22 vs AA 82% of time???is that still poker,is this correct to be true???so,if he can show for example,that he loses w AA 82%,i think that would be teriblle wrong,false,unfair and criminal????so,in THAT case he would have some ground for legal lawsuit...as i am tired of people saying;yes,you can lose hundred times in a row with aces and thats possiblle????NO,ITS NOT POSSIBLLE...in that case,poker room would be cheating and scamming his customers...IMHO...

There is a very basic understanding of probability that is lacking here Janushr. If there is a probability that something can happen, then it is possible. It is extremely simple and I don't get how you don't understand that.

If there is a 0.000000001 probability of something happening, it will happen 1 time out of a billion, not 0 times.

Vladimir, can you see how one isolated event of 1 in 1 trillion (if that is in fact the actual likelihood of your downswing) can easily be dismissed as a statistical anomaly? Or will you just continue to "only reply to constructive posts" and ignore this again and instead reply to posts that bruise your ego a wee bit.

Let me choose a random number between 0 and 1 trillion. I choose 15578359024. There was a 1 in 1 trillion chance I would choose that number, but oh look, it happened. Is this proof my brain is rigged?

We are playing a game with 8.06x10^67 deck possibilities. Compared to 52!, a trillion is pretty much nothing.

Gl at the tables in future.


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thazar
Joined: 14.09.2009

One has less that 1:13 000 000 chance to win the lottery, yet it happens almost every week to someone ....

_pleased:


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Optroot
Joined: 11.05.2008

Every post in this thread is either,

1) I'm right and you guys are so wrong, you just don't understand how godly I am.
2) Why don't you get it! The probability of a downswing doesn't matter...
3) Uncomprehensable, dense text complaining about AA being cracked, or suckouts EVERY TIME.

Not interesting or productive thread anymore (not that it ever was).


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Just posting this as a reminder to myself. According to PT4 this hand is worth minus15$ EV:

PokerStars - $13.92+$1.08|10/20 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 175
SB: 1,470
Hero (BB): 1,440
UTG: 2,995
MP: 1,550
CO: 1,370

SB posts SB 10, Hero posts BB 20

Pre Flop: (pot: 30) Hero has A♦ A♥

UTG raises to 60, MP raises to 180, fold, BTN calls 175 and is all-in, fold, Hero raises to 520, UTG raises to 2,995 and is all-in, fold, Hero calls 920 and is all-in

Flop: (3,245, 3 players) Q♣ 4♥ T♠

Turn: (3,245, 3 players) T♥

River: (3,245, 3 players) 3♦

Hero shows A♦ A♥ (Two Pair, Aces and Tens) (Pre 72%, Flop 9%, Turn 5%)
UTG shows Q♥ Q♦ (Full House, Queens full of Tens) (Pre 17%, Flop 86%, Turn 95%)
BTN shows 3♥ J♠ (Two Pair, Tens and Threes) (Pre 11%, Flop 4%, Turn 0%)
UTG wins 3,245


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belthazorrrr
Joined: 12.02.2011

I dont want to be cruel to you. You lost my interest around 2nd page. I runned 325bis bellow ev in 20k sample. If you dont believe see my blog. You need to digest it. You will run bad forever. Now you know it improve your game

And yes ffs this hand worh -15$. You said you were smart but you prove the other way. Work your game so you can make decent money even when running bad and stop fooling around. Even if pokerstars is rigged you will loose anyway

Gl


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Originally posted by belthazorrrr
And yes ffs this hand worh -15$. You said you were smart but you prove the other way.

What the hell are you talking about? How can I be -15$ EV in an 15$ SnG when my only all-in is with aces?

God knows how many mistakes like this passed through.

EDIT: And I don't think I wrote in here for a while so if your only goal is to provoke with lies and ignorance then please leave and don't come back again.

EDIT 2: Also I feel bad for your downswing but it just isn't comparable.


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Rihard4a
Joined: 08.09.2010


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