Fl Hu S&g Or

Guys calm it down, first and final warning.

I suggest you both take some time and calm down. If this continues temp-bans and RO's could follow. I have no objection to debate getting a little heated but personal insults are something I and Pokerstrategy.com will not tolerate on our forums.

Boomer, your starting arguments don't really apply. We all know we are playing a fucking SnG. Rake is paid, play looser - so? The rest I'll respond to in due time unless you ban me.

This just shows you're on chat tilt atm but I'll answer your response

85% is pretty much a default open for a HUHU cash game. This is a really common opening %-age used, can be found in many books and talked about by quite a few players

So therefore default HUSNG ranges should be looser than that, ergo 90%+ should probably be your default.

A default HUHU cash game range is too nitty for SNGs.

Originally posted by Turuntor

Originally posted by Boomer2k10
I'd say 100% is definitely closer to the mark than 80% and I'm pretty sure most GTO bots play any 2 HUHU

Surprise surprise, the robots' figure a few years back was around 82% (taken from Newall's latest book). Still, this leaves only worst offsuit 2,3,4 combos in the open folding range.

But opening more against human opponents seems very reasonable also to me. Even 100% against those who do not fight back properly. And there are plenty of such opponents, I've seen them!

I'm actually surprised by this as I think they recently came up with 68% as a "solved" SB opening range when you're OOP so I'm really shocked it's only a few % higher when you have the button but I guess that's why they're the UoA guys

That said I know Polaris was looser than that for sure just from the hands it played vs IJay Polanski and Mark Newhouse but I think that was one of its "personalities" playing, I know it was a personality which roflstomped Ijay for $500k.

Is there some open limping in that figure? You'll have to forgive me, I haven't read Newall's latest book yet?

Originally posted by Boomer2k10

Originally posted by Turuntor

Originally posted by Boomer2k10
I'd say 100% is definitely closer to the mark than 80% and I'm pretty sure most GTO bots play any 2 HUHU

Surprise surprise, the robots' figure a few years back was around 82% (taken from Newall's latest book). Still, this leaves only worst offsuit 2,3,4 combos in the open folding range.

But opening more against human opponents seems very reasonable also to me. Even 100% against those who do not fight back properly. And there are plenty of such opponents, I've seen them!

I'm actually surprised by this as I think they recently came up with 68% as a "solved" SB opening range when you're OOP so I'm really shocked it's only a few % higher when you have the button but I guess that's why they're the UoA guys

That said I know Polaris was looser than that for sure just from the hands it played vs IJay Polanski and Mark Newhouse but I think that was one of its "personalities" playing, I know it was a personality which roflstomped Ijay for $500k.

Is there some open limping in that figure? You'll have to forgive me, I haven't read Newall's latest book yet?

I'll give a short summary here. In the preflop chapter three GTO bots were considered: one by Marv Andersen, Rockhopper (2010 Annual Poker Competition winner) and 2011 version of Polaris. They had open raising ranges of 82.2%, 82.8% and 82.5%, respectively. Not one of these bots did open limp. Overall, the ranges look very similar although there exists minor differences in some borderline hands.

Limping seems to belong to the realm of exploitive plays. It has been used with great success by the famously wildly playing exploitive bot Sonia that you probably know.

Yeah, both Sonia and early versions of Polaris we both known to open limp and do various other super wierd stuff

Suppose I should be ok that my default open raising range is 84.6% according to Combonator then (Overall difference 2 full combos) ♦

Yes, that 85% sounds not to be too much. Especially as the GTO ranges are against opponents who 3-bet 33%-35% (as those three bots do). Against less 3-bet happy opponents you probably are able to open somewhat more. But how much I can't comment.

And I must add that actually I'm not too knowledgeable at all in these opening range matters, haven't studied them myself. I just happened to read the Newall book and therefore had to correct that slightly wrong belief of Boomer.

Originally posted by Boomer2k10
Guys calm it down, first and final warning.

I suggest you both take some time and calm down. If this continues temp-bans and RO's could follow. I have no objection to debate getting a little heated but personal insults are something I and Pokerstrategy.com will not tolerate on our forums.

Boomer, your starting arguments don't really apply. We all know we are playing a fucking SnG. Rake is paid, play looser - so? The rest I'll respond to in due time unless you ban me.

This just shows you're on chat tilt atm but I'll answer your response

85% is pretty much a default open for a HUHU cash game. This is a really common opening %-age used, can be found in many books and talked about by quite a few players

So therefore default HUSNG ranges should be looser than that, ergo 90%+ should probably be your default.

A default HUHU cash game range is too nitty for SNGs.

Now calm.

I don't mind exploitative play. My whole reasoning is that a too nitty style is most expensive for my opponent when the blinds are high. If he folds too much in the beginning, I'll take advantage of that, but perhaps not full advantage if this means he will keep folding too much in the end game where an incorrect fold on his part is much more valuable for me. And yes, I do think an opponent will notice an occasional fold. Even nits usually play with a HUD. In the advent that the opponent doesn't notice anything, well, then your logic wins.

/Johan