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NL5 Zooooom T9 BB defend against BU open

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advancedTN1984
Joined: 29.10.2012

PokerStars - $0.05 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 101.8 BB (VPIP: 35.00, PFR: 35.00, 3Bet Preflop: 33.33, Hands: 20)
SB: 49 BB (VPIP: 29.73, PFR: 21.62, 3Bet Preflop: 5.56, Hands: 38)
Hero (BB): 128.2 BB
UTG: 106 BB (VPIP: 21.05, PFR: 15.79, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 20)
MP: 246 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 50.00, 3Bet Preflop: 50.00, Hands: 4)
CO: 148.8 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has 9♦ T♠

fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to 3 BB, fold, Hero calls 2 BB

Flop: (6.4 BB, 2 players) 8♥ 8♠ J♥
Hero checks, BTN bets 4 BB, Hero calls 4 BB

Turn: (14.4 BB, 2 players) 2♠
Hero checks, BTN bets 7 BB, Hero calls 7 BB

River: (28.4 BB, 2 players) Q♣
Hero checks, BTN bets 10 BB, Hero raises to 40 BB, fold

Spoiler

Hero wins 46.4 BB

Button is quite loose over the total hands we have played together so i think he might be fishy but can't say much about it. I defend on the button my standard range against his open. My calling range is:

TT-22, ATs-A2s, KJs-K2s, Q4s+, J7s+, T8s+, 97s+, 86s+, 75s+, 64s+, 54s, ATo-A2o, KJo-K7o, Q8o+, J8o+, T8o+, 98o, 87o, 76o

My 3bet range looks like: JJ+,AJs+,KQs,AJo+,KQo

I hit this board with my 8x and Jx.
Made hands on this flop are:
JJ, 88, A8s, K8s, Q8s, J7s+, T8s, 98s, 86s+, A8o, KJo, K8o, QJo, Q8o, J8o, T8o, 98o
I will continue by reraising of this part of the range the following hands.
JJ, 88, A8o, A8s, K8s, K8o
I will continue by calling my weaker made hands.
Q8s, J7s+, T8s, 98s, 86s+, KJo, QJo, Q8o, J8o, T8o, 98o

On this flop my draws are:
A♥T♥-A♥2♥, K♥J♥-K♥2♥, T9s, A♥To-A♥2o, K♥To-K♥7o, T9o
since villain is not bombing the flop i continue with all of them.

On the turn nothing does change. So I will continue with my whole range after villain is again not bombing this turn.

On river, T9 got there. I will fold all my draws that are not made hands and reraise villain. I thought villain has had some kind of hand after taking the line to bet three times. So I can put a larger size raise on the river with my made hand. How much was better been?


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6 replies

Hello,

Your calling range is rather wide here. Hands like weak Kxs, also Qxs look good but we will have hard time playing those OOP especially against unknowns.
Same goes for K8o/K7o/J8o/J9o/T8o76o. Overall I would prefer to have a wider 3bet range than to have wide calling range.

I would usually raise most of my 8x on the flop here as we can take value from FDs/Jx.

I don't like calling this turn here. First of fall, board is paired so we might be drawing dead already. In addition, with T high we are rarely favorites plus there are two flush draws out there so this reduces our clean outs even more.
Considering that we are being OOP I think folding is best.

I would personally make it like 30bb on the river. Villain looks like he's trying to go for thin value there and I don't think he's going to call such a big raise with a hand like Jx here.

Best,
Plamen


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advancedTN1984
Joined: 29.10.2012

I agree with your analysis of my postflop game. I was asking for trouble on the turn.

But for ranges, i think before i can define my ranges i have to get good starting points. My literature is application no limit hold'em. They state that the blinds have to defend about 37.5%+ if i ever call, and i call. I took the ranges from this book but did it copy it wrong so i am sorry about that. But my range consists the stuff you say that are hard to play, and i agree with that. So time to define ranges that suit better my level of playing.

But what do you think i have to defend on the big blind? small blind? 3bet small blind, 3bet big blind? The ratio in the 3bet range has to be something like 1:1.5(value:bluffs). It depends also on what villain is opening, if villain is opening 2bb, 2.5bb, 3bb, 4bb.

1.5x-2(1-x)=0=>1.5x+2x=2=>x=57% so have to defend 43% combined(sb +bb)
if villain bets 2.5bb i have to defend 37.5% combined.
If villain bets 3bb i have to defend 33.33% combined.
If villain bets 4bb i have to defend 28% combined.

I think for the ratio it has to be something like 4:1(bb:sb). I think a good starting goal could be to defend 30% if villain bets 2bb. 25% if villain bets 2.5bb, 20% if villain bets 3bb, 17.5% if villain bets 4bb. Villain will make autoprofit if he bets any two if i am following this recipe. Is it clear what i tried to say:). Hope to see some nice comments about it:).


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First of all, I like to state that I like your motivation of understanding the things and trying to play balanced.

As far as I can see, you are trying to get near to GTO - game theory optimal.
Of course, no one can argue about GTO not being right, but I got to say, that there are several spots that playing GTO does not get us the highest EV.
What I mean is, the hand does not end preflop, and we still have to play on three streets once we called preflop. Most of the hands that your calling range consist of (the ones mentioned in the book) are going to be very hard to play postflop => more mistakes. More mistakes inevitably would lead to loosing more money postflop than we would use if we just folded preflop. Also I want to add that there are winning regs even at NL50 who concentrate more on exploiting people's weaknesses than playing GTO.
Of course, you need to get better to play those spots, but I would certainly not advice starting to defend 35% from tomorrow after you only defended 15% (lets say this just for the point of my thought) today. Things have to be changed slowly.

Your calculations are true apart from the BB/SB defend ratio - it is simple - in the BB you have twice as much money invested than in the SB so you need to defend twice as much.

About giving ranges - I don't think something as complex as defending the blinds should be just done by saying you should defend this. At the end of the day, someone's ranges apply to his personal style of play and abilities.
I think it would be a much better thing to do if you just try to construct this range yourself and ask questions.
Of course, if you still want me to write down some ranges I can do this for you.


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advancedTN1984
Joined: 29.10.2012

Thanks for your compliment, i'd like to say that i am not trying to play very balanced, i try to exploit my opponents the most but before you can exploit them well i need some fundamentals and that's GTO, it is a solid framework for understanding plays and in general i am not here to play poker to prevent other players to score, i'd like to score myself. I think some people are c=betting like 80% because they can c=bet it.... But i dislike this approach, i'd like to c=bet because there is a reason to, that is also true for other situations and in a lot of the cases i don't do the things right now, in a session of half an hour some other people find 4 a 5 mistakes, i'd like also to fix those mistakes. A downside of this approach is that i am not playing the player enough and that's something i am looking also in.

Ok i will come up with some nice reasonable ranges myself that i think i can play okay, and have some questions about those hands in the future, and you got the idea right, i have to define myself hands that i'd like to play that fit my ability's and my personality.... Tomorrow i will take a look in it :).


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advancedTN1984
Joined: 29.10.2012

Let's assume my regular villain is NIT and opens from Button and i am sitting on the BB. So he plays hands like this 22+,A2s+,K8s+,Q8s+,J8s+,T8s+,97s+,86s+,75s+,64s+,54s,A2o+,K8o+,Q9o+,J9o+,T9o. According to http://www.pokerstrategy.com/strategy/bss/2269/1/.

I think i can profitably defend a range like this by calling:
99-77, A9s-A6s, KJs+, QTs+, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, AQo-AJo, KQo.

At least i am a slight favourite against his wide range. I am 3betting a range like this: TT+, ATs+, A5s-A2s, KQs, K9s, Q9s, JTs, AKo, ATo, A5o-A2o, KJo
I don't know how this range is doing against his 4betting range but against his calling range i am doing not that well. I am just a slight favourite. I am playing out of position so that makes it harder for me and better for him.

My defend calling range consists of 7.7% hands or to be accurate 102 total hands. I have build it up following a few restrictions. The hands have to have 2 out of 3 components out of the following set of properties, connectidness, high card value and suitedness. A9s-A6s have high card value and are suited, hands like KJs QTo have high card value and some connectedness. Hands like 99-77 have the ability to flop straights or middle pairs.

Hands in my 3bet range are both value and bluffs the ratio between value and bluffs is 1 to 1.5. TT+, ATs+,KQs,AKo. Those hands are value and my bluffs are A5s-A2s, K9s, Q9s, JTs, ATo, A5o-A2o, KJo. The hands in my bluff range have to property of having at least one blocker. Are for some part suited and some part is connected. In this way my total range consists of 20% hands. Is this too much?

Is my calling ratio to 3bet ratio better now, or can it become much better than this? Do I have the right cards at the right place now? Is my assumption of the average tigh aggressive okay?


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This look better now. 20% defend range looks good and basically this is a good starting point. In the future you would be widening this range, but for now 20% is just good.

You calling range looks pretty well because you chose hands that flop decent hands and play easily, so you won't have much problems with playing those postflop.
Also, I like your 3bet percentage and the hands you chose are good.

Of course those ranges would be changed during play according to stats/notes, but against unknowns they looks fine.


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