[NL5 SH] AA river fold? (or even turn?)

hey
misclick at start of hands ruins our analysis really. BB can be super wide here given that fish in CO will probably tag along. Like you say, raising to 4BB (or even 5BB given the fish) is the way to go. You have to discount some overpairs from BB as he would probably 3bet your small iso with anything premium. Given the way you played it I think your line is good, I'd probably do the same (i'd be clicking call on the turn with reluctance). If you'd iso raised larger and got the same action I think turn would be a fold.
Definately folding river. This is rarely a bluff.

Stay classy

Cheers mate. Yeah, I agree with turn fold if we raised properly. Assuming he 3bets preflop vs BU TT-JJ, there's nothing really he can get that aggro with except set.

Edited: oh, I forgot this:

Hi, bet bigger bcs if limper (missclick is unfortunate) but 3x from the button seems too big as an open (u said that u usually open 0.15 from BU)

Back to the hand, with cold call we def can expect some small pairs, however river is pretty good card for us bcsit's less likely that villain hit his set on the flop, also we get a nice price, looks like easy call on the river, at least imo.

Glgl,
Fran

Originally posted by FFRRAANNKKIIEE
Hi, bet bigger bcs if limper (missclick is unfortunate) but 3x from the button seems too big as an open (u said that u usually open 0.15 from BU)

Back to the hand, with cold call we def can expect some small pairs, however river is pretty good card for us bcsit's less likely that villain hit his set on the flop, also we get a nice price, looks like easy call on the river, at least imo.

Glgl,
Fran

3bb is fine according to most advice I've ever heard everywhere We are on the BU, the best seat at the table, so we want to build the pot and play it IP, because position will allow us to win (bigger) pots even with worse hands.

River reduces the # of boats/quads in his range from 9 to 7, so the blocking effect is far from being absolute. The reason we fold is because he represents only two types of hands: boats/quads and air. To make a call the villain needs to raise flop and barrel two more streets with air in 30% cases. Do you think a TAG at NL5 plays like that every third flop he completely misses? I somehow doubt it. If he has any air here at all, which he easily may have none, it's more like 5-10% anyway, otherwise he would be a total maniac.

awlays, always, AWLAYS open 3x or even 4x your premium hands, no matter the position at 5nl

According the hand, it's kindy sh***y cuz the missclick pre, but Im calling river since that 4 hits.

Originally posted by Th334

Originally posted by FFRRAANNKKIIEE
Hi, bet bigger bcs if limper (missclick is unfortunate) but 3x from the button seems too big as an open (u said that u usually open 0.15 from BU)

Back to the hand, with cold call we def can expect some small pairs, however river is pretty good card for us bcsit's less likely that villain hit his set on the flop, also we get a nice price, looks like easy call on the river, at least imo.

Glgl,
Fran

3bb is fine according to most advice I've ever heard everywhere We are on the BU, the best seat at the table, so we want to build the pot and play it IP, because position will allow us to win (bigger) pots even with worse hands.

River reduces the # of boats/quads in his range from 9 to 7, so the blocking effect is far from being absolute. The reason we fold is because he represents only two types of hands: boats/quads and air. To make a call the villain needs to raise flop and barrel two more streets with air in 30% cases. Do you think a TAG at NL5 plays like that every third flop he completely misses? I somehow doubt it. If he has any air here at all, which he easily may have none, it's more like 5-10% anyway, otherwise he would be a total maniac.

Well, you are not completely right in some points you made,

1. We are opening from BU 40+% (on higher stakes more) and 3x definetely becomes questionable, I'm not saying that it's a huge mistake, but I'd keep 2x from BU as my default unless we have some hell of a fish in blinds- then i would tighten up a bit my range and go for 2.5 or even 3x. However, vs random players/ regs 2x seems better. Someone said that you should keep 3xing and 4xing when holding premiums no matter what; well I must say that's just bad, you should definetely not change your sizing if you are on top or on bottom of your range.. Just keep betting the same with all of your range. Even if it works better to 3x from the button at micros for you I can understand; but dont change it to 4x when holding AA or to 2.5x when holding bottom of your range or things like that.. So all in all, it was just an advise, take it or leave it

2. He is bot representing just boats or airbcs you played badly preflop (accidentaly but still you seem very weak with that bet) so he could definetely think that he's good with any 9x hand, he could also overplay small pp's up to 88, or just with some air (two overs) type of hands what you said but underestimated; two overs will play aggeessive in this spot pretty often.

Cheers,
Fran

Originally posted by RakeVictim
always, always, AWLAYS open 3x or even 4x your premium hands, no matter the position at 5nl
I hear this often, but I, personally, would easily spot this and make a note on you. It's not like everyone is retarded at NL5 ♦ So I don't do it myself. Although it might work.

Originally posted by FFRRAANNKKIIEE
1. We are opening from BU 40+% (on higher stakes more) and 3x definitely becomes questionable, I'm not saying that it's a huge mistake, but I'd keep 2x from BU as my default unless we have some hell of a fish in blinds- then i would tighten up a bit my range and go for 2.5 or even 3x. However, vs random players/ regs 2x seems better. Someone said that you should keep 3xing and 4xing when holding premiums no matter what; well I must say that's just bad, you should definitely not change your sizing if you are on top or on bottom of your range.. Just keep betting the same with all of your range. Even if it works better to 3x from the button at micros for you I can understand; but don't change it to 4x when holding AA or to 2.5x when holding bottom of your range or things like that.. So all in all, it was just an advise, take it or leave it
I used to open 2bb from BU too, but then I was told by a coach that it's not about "stealing", it's about playing pots with positional advantage, so it doesn't help to make pots smaller. This made sense to me. Either way, I think 3bb is right in the middle and it can't be too wrong in any case.

As to 4bb, I don't even open that much from UTG. I keep it all 3bb, and my reasoning is that I don't want to remind fish that I'm positionally aware. I guess many players don't know about position, and when I bet big from UTG and small from BU they can still make a correct inference that my range is tight from UTG and loose from BU without applying any thought process So I just don't remind them and open 3bb everywhere.

Originally posted by FFRRAANNKKIIEE
2. He is bot representing just boats or air bcs you played badly preflop (accidentally but still you seem very weak with that bet) so he could definitely think that he's good with any 9x hand, he could also overplay small pp's up to 88, or just with some air (two overs) type of hands what you said but underestimated; two overs will play aggressive in this spot pretty often.

Nah, I think you just experience confirmation bias here: you said that call is fine and now you're trying to make up reasons why it's fine ♦ Come on, 9x doesn't check raise flop and bet two streets, neither does 88, you serious? They should play for pot control, this line would totally overrepresent their actual strength. I called the flop raise, that gotta tell him something! And turn too! What does he think, I'm calling here with 97? No, no way these are value bets from weaker made hands.

well, I just wanted to share with you my opinions, it's totally right (and I absolutely approve) that everyone has it's own thinking while playing. I know that I would most certainly value bet A9 and K9 here vs hero all day. In the end of a day it's on you to decide which approach you would go with and some other advises can give you just wider image of how other players think in the end.

Also, I'm not a coach, so these is just part of my personal tought process which i shared w you.

Best of luck sir,
Fran

Originally posted by RakeVictim
awlays, always, AWLAYS open 3x or even 4x your premium hands, no matter the position at 5nl
can confirm it works

I can believe this yeah, never played NL5 tbh, but over adapting to nano stakes can hurt your game probably.