ZOOM QJo vs 3bet

Why not betting the turn? We could represent successfully the A.
As played I would rather prefer checking back the river. With the high cards and the flush, plus possible straight I don't think we would get enough calls from mediocre hands. I would bet if I hold Q♥ Here it is quite possible to get bluffed if villain is holding Q♥

I think turn is ok for us to bet. Villain is x/folding 60, so we can do this. On the river when the bd flush got there I would think wel before making a bet. But I like the idea to xb.

Repping SDV by xb turn? I guess villain would never have a flush for not barrelling the turn OR betting himself otr.. I think just a halfpot sizing would be ok, no? We are never really bluffing in this spot given the board runout and the line you took, so I don't really see the point in betting large since villain played so weak. Just halfpot or even slightly less feels best. I don't really see what hands could call though since he shouldn't have many weak Ax hands - they will flat pre, so he has a bunch of bluffcatchers.

xb river feels too weak I think, not scared of the flush at all, just trying to squeeze value from his bluffcatchers if he even has anything. don't think the fact that he rarely has a decent hand is a reason to check back our strong hand. Betting tiny to induce feels a little transparent here since our range is going to be smashing this board so I doubt he will get any ideas to bluff.

River is a must bet imo, would go like 11bb as its hard to get much more from Tx/Kx. I wouldn't worry about inducing a raise, he does have high wwsf which goes a little against this claim but you can easily have flush and he doesn't really rep too much with bet x x/r so I don't reckon you really do induce for 1/3 pot.

I wouldn't check back turn. Isn't the point of playing vs this guy to float him with his stats?

What's his fold to 4b? I'd rather 4bet the QJ when offsuit, and do some flat pre flop floats with like 86s type stuff instead, for better backdoors.

I wouldn't call PRF, QJo just sucks. On the river, against the good reg I would bet big because you don't rep a lot (AT,66,TT are all betting turn and AK is 4B) and against bad reg would bet smaller (max 1/2 pot) to get hero called by Kx or weak A.

Originally posted by VaskataBuci
As played I would rather prefer checking back the river. With the high cards and the flush, plus possible straight I don't think we would get enough calls from mediocre hands. I would bet if I hold Q♥ Here it is quite possible to get bluffed if villain is holding Q♥

then we just b/c right, this is one of our best hands here

Originally posted by DrDunne
Repping SDV by xb turn? I guess villain would never have a flush for not barrelling the turn OR betting himself otr..

yes

Originally posted by metza
I wouldn't check back turn. Isn't the point of playing vs this guy to float him with his stats?

we can probably get folds from the hands we want by betting river, while it's not easy to tell how many extra folds we get by betting turn+river (besides that he can x/r some of the time), so equity realization. you guys must be discounting way too many Ax+

Originally posted by Sholja
I wouldn't call PRF, QJo just sucks. On the river, against the good reg I would bet big because you don't rep a lot (AT,66,TT are all betting turn and AK is 4B) and against bad reg would bet smaller (max 1/2 pot) to get hero called by Kx or weak A.

yeah i agree with everything. i forgot the relevant piece that he has like 20% f4b and i think high 5b, so i thought it was the lesser evil, definitely arguable though. if he had no obvious post weaknesses i would probably fold

to everyone arguing for a check behind river, fucking god damned hell that's really damn nitty. your value ranges are narrow as fuck
i don't mind arguing for a bet/fold, though not betting is criminal. i wonder if you might have been results oriented because of the spoiler though

If this would be NL10/16/20, which I am familiar with, I would rather 4bet bluff this hand preflop. Given the reasons you gave (low Ft4B and high 5bet), probably calling is ok. As played, I like bet/folding the turn because expect him to cbet Ax (but probably not as often as in single-raised pot), so we probably have a sufficient fold equity combined the turn and river. I also expect him to cbet his flushdraws (but I also wouldn't discount them from his range completelly, given that, again, the pot is not single-raised). After betting the turn, I would bet that river, too, something like 1/2 pot. If he raises, I think it would be quite hard fold, but still a fold. As played (when we check the turn), I think we have to bet/fold the river because I don't expect him to bluff there often enough and given the turn assumtions, he can easily have a flush.

Originally posted by Tomaloc
to everyone arguing for a check behind river, fucking god damned hell that's really damn nitty. your value ranges are narrow as fuck
i don't mind arguing for a bet/fold, though not betting is criminal. i wonder if you might have been results oriented because of the spoiler though

I think so too

I go w a biggish bet OTR. I have no idea wtf to do if he x/j ♦

Maybe if facing a jam on the river is so messed up we should just bet turn and jam river ourselves? I mean we go broke here anyway, it's not like we hit our straight on the river after betting turn and then bet/fold and it won't be a mistake either. However checking back turn and then betting river and getting jammed on is really ugly here and it's really difficult to know the best play - this might indicate that we should have played the hand differently on the turn, right?

i don't think so at all. in a dumb analogy, just because calling 3bets oop can be difficult, then we should never do it and always just 4bet or fold?
in this hand, we have a gutshot ott, how often do we even hit? we mostly miss, and i feel like i don't want to bluff turn+river with this hand on principle, so if i want to run a 1 street bluff, then what about just bluffing the river? it's a good board for that.
and as it happened, how often do we actually get x/jammed otr here? definitely not often at all.

i didn't find the river jam very troubling at all. actually i called without too much thought and no regrets about it

QJo would be in my bottom range of BTN defend, with KJo, but still a call.

Flop std

Turn i think that checking QhJh is good cause is to strong to bet/fold when villains xr, but QJo is ok to bluff

i mean, when you float + bet turn you polarize your range, and wich hands of your range are worse on that turn? maybe 87s? 98s?

i dont hate check behind to be honest, but, i dont see a lot of regs betting flop and xc turn with some AX, his weaks AX are xcalling flop all day so i think villain has a lot of air here

if i check back my plan would be betting any river if he checks again

this river is bad for his range, if he is cbetting TX, JJ-QQ OTF he would probably fold, the only hands that we can get value are his AX that he decides to xc the turn and some KQ that he doesnt double barrel .. i would bet on the small side, like 15bbs