NL16 - River spot vs fish 2

Villain calls 2 big bets, there are a lot of straight and 2 pair type hands here you can gain value from, that he might check back, now the flush is present, there is a small possibility he has called on a back door flush, I think you can shove the river here, you will get called by worse more often then better, by check calling we only really pay off a flush if he is passive especially.

I think rather about 1/2 pot size bet. You can get calls from 2 pairs, J9, even KJ.

never check, its the old story. bf is ok

I would bet 1/2 and fold to a raise here. A set will not call the shove...

Do not see really that much BDFs in his range, since he already has called larger sizes on earlier streets. Therefore, I think we still can bet for value, there are various combinations of twopairs or sets - so I would stick with what the others mentioned and bet around half pot. A shove would be obv. ugly, maybe fold then, make a note and observe what he does the next time.

Yep, I was on my B game when playing this hand. Had I had TT or KQ I think I'd have b/folded (I know, it's silly since it doesn't change the fact of losing vs a flush, but its hard for your brain to accept that your absolute nuts on flop AND turn are beated by a backdoor draw )

Complete hand:

Had to fold...

This is why i would prefer to shove the river, there is many hands in his range that will call a shove, and it prevents us from making this mistake, but also gains maximum value when, were ahead, id only make a river shove vs a weaker player though.

On that board not many hands are calling and nearly all of them are flushes...
2P and sets hardly can call a shove here.

Originally posted by nitrol
On that board not many hands are calling and nearly all of them are flushes...
2P and sets hardly can call a shove here.

From experienced players yes, but weak players just say "I have 2 pair im calling" then tell there friends "i hit 2 pair guy shoved, i got unlucky"

You may be right. But I still think that 2p+ hands are raising long before the river...

Originally posted by FrozenElf
This is why i would prefer to shove the river, there is many hands in his range that will call a shove, and it prevents us from making this mistake, but also gains maximum value when, were ahead, id only make a river shove vs a weaker player though.

I think shoving the river results in him only calling with his flushes though and folding some of the hands that he would have called a smaller bet with, like 2 pairs, maybe even sets

Totally agree.

If we check there, he probably wouldn't bet his top pair and two pair hands on this kind of board, but when we bet, he might call those. When he raises, we are almost always beaten. This is a nice spot for bluffing, but realistically, I don't expect much players to bluff there on these limits.