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Backdoor xr

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ilgenio86
Joined: 11.09.2013

Originally posted by VaskataBuci
On this board with x/r you will be representing only 22, 77 and a lot of pure air, and u wont get much credit from villain, who should be calling you really wide. Plus, you probably are not x/r 77 here or at least not always. Which makes your range too bluff heavy imo.
Not saying x/r is bad - i'm sure you will get enough folds to be profitable. I just prefer x/c and play it more aggressively ott.

I totally agree with vaskatabuci. Even 77 is close because there is a chance you would 3bet pre. There aren't 2 pair combo's that make sense. So imo you represent 22 ( but why would set raise on such a dry board) or air.


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thazar
Joined: 14.09.2009

Hi Sir

it's been been a while :)
I think the most important thought process is why did you raise here? what is his range and what part of it are you trying to fold with a x/r? what will you do if he calls OTT, with different turn cards ?, what will you do if he raises? Do you know how likely he is to fold?

it seems that you did it because "it felt like the right thing to do"rather than having a proper plan.


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ferrari1f
Joined: 06.11.2013

Most of it is being said. Pre-flop, this is a pretty standard defend against a min-open from the BTN. I don't like 3-betting that much. You're getting way too good odds to play this hand profitably, even OOP. But you'll have to make some plays from time to time and play it more aggressively on the right boards.

On this board however, 7♣:K♥:2♠:: it doesn't make much sense. Button's range is fairly wide here, so he'll be c-betting almost his whole range. Most players will, since it's a K high dry flop making it hard for you to connect on. If you would have a value hand here, like 22 or 77, you're almost never check/raising this flop. So you're not repping any value hands at all.

You only have a backdoor and just check/folding the flop is not all that bad. If you want to make a play, which you will have to do from time to time with such hands, then I'd prefer calling flop and making a play on the turn if any heart hits, or if any 3,4,5,6 hits. Any heart will give you a flush draw, any 3/4 gives you a gutshot and with any 5/6 you can turn your hand into a bluff just in case Villain has the occasional QJo or something like that. By check-raising those boards, let's say:

7♣:K♥:2♠:4♦:
7♣:K♥:2♠:4♠:
7♣:K♥:2♠:5♣:
7♣:K♥:2♠:T♥:
...

You have way more equity here and check/raising just looks so much stronger. If you would hold 77 or 22, you'd always check/raise (or lead) to build up that pot. Also, you want him to charge for your draws. If you turn the FD, every now and then you will hit it as well. Semi-bluffing on the turn is thus way better.

Correct me if I am wrong. This is how I see it. :f_cool: :f_cool: :f_cool:


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

Originally posted by kriko92
I checked my sample for the spot and 56s and similar hands seem to be slightly losing. This is perfectly fine as we're playing BB and it is a profitable call if we lose less than 100 bb/100.

Maybe I will disappoint you, but I am winning with 65s with a 3B preflop BBvs BU. And this is for 300k+ hands.
So, I will 3 bet here and make money.


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kriko92
Joined: 16.11.2010

You completely missed the point... You could be winning with some other hands instead, with which you are now losing 100 bb/100.

Edit: And yes, we have to always take the most profitable line with a hand. If our laughable samples (I don't know yours but I had less than 100 cases vs minraise over 600k hands) happen to show similar results to objective reality then that would be a very strong argument for 3betting less polarised here.


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