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sb v bb QTs

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marsa08
Joined: 30.01.2014

$0.10/$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players

SB: $24.74 (123.7 bb)
Hero (BB): $25.69 (128.5 bb)
UTG: $20.92 (104.6 bb)
MP: $25.58 (127.9 bb)
CO: $34.86 (174.3 bb)
BTN: $13.71 (68.6 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with T Q
4 folds, SB raises to $0.60, Hero calls $0.40

Flop: ($1.20) 2 Q K (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.72, SB calls $0.72

Turn: ($2.64) J (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

River: ($2.64) 8 (2 players)
SB bets $2, Hero folds

SB is a reg 24/19 flop cbet 60. (500hands)

Don't know if I should bet this hand when he checks otf.

How do I play flop/turn here? Could I consider 3 betting since it is bvsb

If we bet ott again I dont know what to do otr.

Edit: should this be bet/bet/c/f??

Edited some of my thoughts away since they were incorrect. But Im not sure how to play this?


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15 replies
YohanN7
Joined: 15.06.2009

Of the options you mention, there is no really bad option. I think it is fine as played. Flop bet + turn bet has its merits, you want calls from A♥:x and stop him from bluffing river. Flop check has its merits too. Your hand is then a mystery to him. Lets see what the others prefer.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

Kx, some Qx, FD, SD are cbetting flop and turn. ..
Maybe it is ok as played?


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oI2ange
Joined: 21.07.2015

You played this hand fine. You can also check back the flop, which is a fine play here. Your hand isn't a 3 street value hand and checking a street seems logical. I'm a bit tempted to call the river since I don't know if he takes this line with Kx, but meh.


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kriko92
Joined: 16.11.2010

I prefer checking back on flop because we don't accomplish much by betting - we just give money to his better Qx and weak Kx. Our hand can't bet multiple streets for value so we can delay this for the turn and there is not much equity that we can fold out on flop. As played, turn is not a good card for us and checking is fine and river should be easy fold.


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Hesticus
Joined: 24.06.2008

Would have done the same. Indeed, Q10 isn't strong enough for 3 streets of value but with second pair and low kicker you can bet OTF and get away with it quite easily when faced aggression.


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MisterSnS
Joined: 09.11.2011

NH, but I prefer to really check the flop in this spot. If we bet 100% of our broadways here, this means that our checking-range is so weak that Villain can bluff us out of the hand on any given turn because we will have a nearly 100%-Folding-Range. That's why I would simply check here and re-evaluate on the turn and river. Also, many guys just cbet their draws here and few get fancy enough and check/raise, so there's less need for protection on the flop, imo


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Dadramel
Joined: 10.08.2014

You can shift the bet on turn, he's gonna be most likely to catch you on bluffin and you won't get yourself bluffed out on the river. Same rules aplly if he bets the turn (you call, showdown's free)


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scopinad
Joined: 13.06.2015

I think the only mistake is donking the flop. Better to try to check down all streets and go for showdown value to see if Hero can complete his defense. Very marginal spot indeed.


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MisterSnS
Joined: 09.11.2011

Originally posted by scopinad
I think the only mistake is donking the flop. Better to try to check down all streets and go for showdown value to see if Hero can complete his defense. Very marginal spot indeed.

I guess you mean betting? Donking is when you are out of position and bet to the in position preflop-raiser


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scopinad
Joined: 13.06.2015

When you are not the preflop aggressor and you bet the flop you are making a donk bet.


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YohanN7
Joined: 15.06.2009

Originally posted by scopinad
When you are not the preflop aggressor and you bet the flop you are making a donk bet.

No, not when checked to.


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scopinad
Joined: 13.06.2015

I found the correct definition, it is not a donk bet because Hero is IP, this spot is defined as "bet flop". Thank you to the posters for helping me in my studies.


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bonecore
Joined: 02.11.2009

if you dont know what to do , bet it .... i would bet Turn 1.4$ into ($2.64)
with the plan to bet myself and control the size of the pot and not put another cent on the river

PS: checking flop i dont like ... unless he has a high x/r or he is a maniac


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scopinad
Joined: 13.06.2015

Yes, I was wrong. Villain showing weakness, the stab on the flop is correct.


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marsa08
Joined: 30.01.2014

Hello and thank you for so many answers!

I'll rewrite my thoughts for this hand:

Since villain did not cbet the flop his range should have some total air that he decided not to cbet - Qx hands(not KQ), pairs lower than JJ(JJ-22) some flushdraws and straight draws that he decided not to cbet and some weak Kx hands like K8s.

So I decided to take a stab otf to charge some draws/weaker pairs that will call once and to fold his air and villain calls. Turn J♥: is one of the worst turn cards for us so thats why I check. I could bet again and try to get value from A♥:x,TT etc. but most of the villains range is now ahead of us(flush got there,straight got there if he calls with AT,JJ got set, QJ got 2 pair and is still beating us ,AQ still beats us, weak kings still beating us)

So by betting ott I'm mostly just giving money to the villains better hands.

Then villain bets on the river. I think that he will be betting his Q;s ,JJ and Kx, flushes and straights since we checked the turn and our hand is basically face up. I don't think that he is turning a hand like TT into a bluff since he can still bluff catch with those hands (and also has showdown value) otr so I folded to his bet.

Originally posted by MisterSnS
NH, but I prefer to really check the flop in this spot. If we bet 100% of our broadways here, this means that our checking-range is so weak that Villain can bluff us out of the hand on any given turn because we will have a nearly 100%-Folding-Range. That's why I would simply check here and re-evaluate on the turn and river. Also, many guys just cbet their draws here and few get fancy enough and check/raise, so there's less need for protection on the flop, imo

I think that this is the best option. Check flop back.


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