Turning a made hand into a bluff

Depends on your image as well. You've a long history with this guy and if you've been attacking him enough eventually you'll start to see more calls, if he is paying attention of course. Many don't.

Villain has to call 27.5% of it ($3.19) at a $11.63 total pot. Mathematically its a bad call with a set, but only if your range is 100% flushes. I think most villains would find a call with a set here.

I like the thinking used here but I do wish that the villain had perhaps another dollar or two behind, to give you a bit more fold equity. Your shove only represents an 60% pot raise due to the short effective stacks.

I think you overplay your TP. Hero have showdown hand and no need for aggression, especially against shortstack. If your intention was to raise and rep flush then imo it would be better to raise flop.

I would call flop, call turn and decide river, only invested 24 bb w TPGK till river so I don't mind folding river if ugly card fall down.

I would fold preflop!
QJo sucks and mostly gives medium hands.

Definately fold preflop. for 2k hands you should see the Foldto3b stat and decide.

I always have reasons for my plays.
My reasons for calling;
1. UTG is lag, he is opening 20% from utg. Against "Normal" regs who open around 10% I am folding this hand.
2. There were no agressive 3bettors behind me.
3. There was 2 fishes behind me who are likely to call and QJ is really strong vs their range. I want to play alot of pots vs them.
4. I have position on utg and the fishes in the blinds.

IMO its a mistake folding QJ here given these table dtnamics, we lose a lot of value.

Why would I ever want to fold QJ here with these dynamics?

Why do you think that Qj is ok in mw pot?

The reasons I just said? Position+ fish in the pot.

Im folding this hand if utg is tight and blinds are not bad players.

1. There are not aggressive 3 bettors behind but they can call you and you are not ok vs their ranges and you will not have position.
2. In MW pot your QJ is not ok - Axx, Kxx boards are too scary and even if you hit a Q or J it may be dominated.

OP has outlined his reasons for playing QJo, which are quite reasonable.

Perhaps you might address the OP's questions rather than derailing.

Preflop is a very easy fold, you are just losing a ton of money with this call. It's MP vs UTG, and he is opening 4bb, QJo is never-ever a good call here, against a tighter range, plus 4 players behind you. Also it's playability is bad (most of the times you will only have a bluffcather, be dominated a lot, lots of reverse implied odds), I would not call this hand even BTN vs CO...

Flop call is marginal 3way, but you can't really do much, if you called pre.

Turn shove is really bad, again, you are losing a shitload of money with this move. After cbetting 3way, and barreling turn, his range is strong, you don't have too many blockers to his bet/calling range (mostly flushes, sometimes sets, overpairs with a ♥), you mostly block hands from his bet/folding range (Jx), which is bad, and you are pretty much dead if he calls your shove. It's heavily -EV, just don't spew like this.

Originally posted by Jaissica
OP has outlined his reasons for playing QJo, which are quite reasonable.

Perhaps you might address the OP's questions rather than derailing.

I gave my reasons too. There are different constructions of a 20% range but still QJo is in its bottom. With the fact that somebody from behind can join and we do not play well MW as we can easily be dominated, I think is enough to make us fold this hand and move on.

So your answer on if this might be a spot to turn a medium hand into a bluff is "fold preflop".

Top answer.

What should I have for lunch? "Buy shares in banks." Thanks dude.

I do not know what provoked that aggression vs me but still you should read more careful as in my comment I said thst Hero should look at villain's Fto3b stat and decide.
Just calling is the worst play here, imo.
Fold>3b>fold

So did you not read the OP properly again (and just spam off another +1 postcount comment, business as usual) or do you not understand it?

The OP wants comments on turning his made pair of jacks with a queen kicker into a bluff by jamming the 9h turn, representing a flush.

At no point was this a discussion on "should I 3bet with my QJo as a bluff", except in the world of the person who just skims every post here and makes a one line throwaway comment without actually reading the hand.

Look, I think here it will be much more appropriate to turn attention to the preflop mistake, than to give advise how to get out of trouble postflop. This is a farely good example how a preflop bad play can lead to postflop - what should I do here? and of course lose more money. So by correcting this, Hero will lessen the cases in which he is in a big pot, mw with a dominated hand, not knowing what to do.

To answer your previous question: What should I have for lunch? - What you have put in the oven...

Just to make you sleep calmer - flop is a fold too. Villan is cbetting mw on flop and continues on turn, we lose to a ton of hands and we should fold.

P.S. I take it personal as not only I wrote about the preflop bad play... My initial post was an answer/addition to KingKlaas' post. Then marsa08 gave his thoughts on the matter and we started discussion. Read carefully and I hope you do not have an issue with me...

Hi,

lets start preflop. He openraises 4x, that means, you need with your hand 42% Equity, but you dont know, how much you can ralize with your hand, means, how often do you get to showdown, because the players behind you can call and hit, or 3bet. And Villain it UTG can also barrel. So you can maybe just realize 0,8 Equity.
42/0,8= 52,5% That means you need a hand with 52,5%.

       Equity     Win     Tie
MP2    58.54%  57.64%   0.90% { 22+, A2s+, KTs+, QTs+, J9s+, T8s+, 97s+, 86s+, 75s+, 65s, ATo+, KTo+ }
MP3    41.46%  40.57%   0.90% { QdJh }

So Qjo isn´t a good call. Postflop i wouldn´t ship the Turn. Villain can have all the sets and flushes, and you don´t block any of his flushes. And why sould he bet bigger, he want´s you to call. And the worsed thing is, you don´t have outs if he calls you. That means, you rely just on foldequity. So overall, not good.

Originally posted by marsa08
I always have reasons for my plays.
My reasons for calling;
1. UTG is lag, he is opening 20% from utg. Against "Normal" regs who open around 10% I am folding this hand.
2. There were no agressive 3bettors behind me.
3. There was 2 fishes behind me who are likely to call and QJ is really strong vs their range. I want to play alot of pots vs them.
4. I have position on utg and the fishes in the blinds.

IMO its a mistake folding QJ here given these table dtnamics, we lose a lot of value.

Why would I ever want to fold QJ here with these dynamics?

#1 because QJo plays bad multiway...
#2because QJo plays bad vs reg shortstack villain ... you need top pair top kicker or second kicker in order to play aggressively postflop... because he is short he will not fold top pair
#3 because vs 20% range, QJo is still behind. (if he would open 25% then it would be still a fold because there are players left to act and they would also call)
#4 because we are in MP and we cant exploit him... if we were on the button we would have position no matter what so we can call with any 2 cards if you know he folds to floats or other reads you have

OK thank you all for pointing me out that I should fold QJo here, I'll fold it next time... But I really wanted to hear opinions about my shove ott like Jaissica said and not about my preflop play.

I just went with the read that UTG does not have anything strong because he bets close to 55% on the flop in multiway pot. If he had a set or overpair I think that he is betting bigger to protect his hand. And to get more money from the fish. Then when the flush hits he bets just under half a pot. I think that villain rarely has a set/flush/anything strong ott and more often a hand like A♥:K♦: or AJ/KJ. -> we should have a lot of fold equity. So I just went with my read and made him fold. Did not want to call because of the reasons I said in original post.

Also most regs line ott is bet/fold to a raise so its easy to exploit this since they fold too much to turn raises.

Results:

But thanks all for your comments. Mabye this is a spewwy hand and I should fold ott/pf but I like to post hands that I played differently from "normal" play.

Ok, now put yourself in villain's shoes. You hold a FD on flop.
Does his line make sense?