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Still struggling with how to play monster draws

 
Hand discussions for No Limit
Last Post by nitrol 10 years ago
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StVatle
StVatle
Joined: 24.11.2014
Posts: 116
18.02.2016, 10:48

Poker Stars, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $2 (100 bb)
BB: $2.04 (102 bb)
UTG: $1.86 (93 bb)
MP: $2.03 (101.5 bb)
CO: $2.66 (133 bb)
Hero (BTN): $2.21 (110.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with T K
UTG raises to $0.07, MP calls $0.07, CO calls $0.07, Hero calls $0.07, SB folds, BB calls $0.05

Flop: ($0.36) J Q 5 (5 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP bets $0.24, CO folds, Hero calls $0.24, BB folds, UTG raises to $0.54, MP calls $0.30, Hero raises to $2.14 and is all-in, UTG calls $1.25 and is all-in, MP folds

Turn: ($4.48) Q (2 players, 2 are all-in)
River: ($4.48) 7 (2 players, 2 are all-in)

Results:

Spoiler

$4.48 pot ($0.16 rake)
Final Board: J Q 5 Q 7
BB mucked and lost (-$0.07 net)
UTG showed J J and won $4.32 ($2.46 net)
MP mucked and lost (-$0.61 net)
CO mucked and lost (-$0.07 net)
Hero showed T K and won $0.00 (-$1.86 net)

Was the shove on the flop bad? Should I just fold?


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7 replies
Pistoleroo
Pistoleroo
Joined: 06.02.2015
Posts: 113
18.02.2016, 12:24

When the UTG raises after a bet and a call u can assume he has a set/ top 2 here. Since u also block alot of fd's and straight draws. So you have arround 0% fold equity here.

Therefor we call his raise and re-evalute the turn. On this turn u then have a clear fold.

There is no sense in raising draws when u have no fold equity.


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YohanN7
YohanN7
Joined: 15.06.2009
Posts: 4,700
18.02.2016, 12:35

You have up to 15 outs and get about a million to one, so you are not folding. You want as many customers in as possible, and have no fold equity. This is a trivial call.


There's always going to be one fly in the ointment - Boomer2k10

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la55i
la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013
Posts: 8,896
18.02.2016, 12:43

No, I don't think it was bad. You have very good equity here. Maybe calling and re-evaluating turn is more +EV but shove is not bad.


Blog :spade: Private Coaching :spade: Website

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YohanN7
YohanN7
Joined: 15.06.2009
Posts: 4,700
18.02.2016, 12:47

Yes, but good equity in a big pot is better than good equity in a small pot. By raising you make the pot small by forcing MP out.


There's always going to be one fly in the ointment - Boomer2k10

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StVatle
StVatle
Joined: 24.11.2014
Posts: 116
18.02.2016, 13:05

The problem is that I just keep facing sets and other better hands. Is it +EV to play these draws all-in on flop? I know it's not that +EV on turn though.


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Pistoleroo
Pistoleroo
Joined: 06.02.2015
Posts: 113
18.02.2016, 14:03

Originally posted by StVatle
The problem is that I just keep facing sets and other better hands. Is it +EV to play these draws all-in on flop? I know it's not that +EV on turn though.

On the flop u usually have between 40%-50% equity against opponents raising range. If you are commiting yourself on the flop to stack off why not see a turn card?

You have the luxury to see a card. The villain with a set doesn't. On the turn u can fold on any bad card (eg paired board) and stack off with 30% equity ore more if u hit or miss. U only lose 10% equity. In this case with the call from mp it is a no-brainer call. Shoving there is just a huge mistake.

Stop looking at the ev-line/red-line in ur graph and make decisions that make u $$.

Hell if you can get to the river without commiting ur full stack it is a great outcome money wise. U had the abillity to realise ur full equity. Yet if you miss you save money. It will hurt your red line but who the fuck cares about those line.

Again raising draws with no FE is burning money.


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nitrol
nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010
Posts: 11,244
18.02.2016, 19:15

Originally posted by StVatle
The problem is that I just keep facing sets and other better hands. Is it +EV to play these draws all-in on flop? I know it's not that +EV on turn though.

It is not bad to push on flop, you have a strong hand, excellent equity. What Yohan is suggesting is very interesting, try to keep all villains in.


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