NL10 ZOOM KK vs. A on the turn

I think x/f would be better. No weak Ax will fold to bet that size OTR and villain wouldn't call turn with some Qx or JJ or something.

We should xf on river. Ax will call and no other weaker hand is calling.

x/f otr. It is very unlikely that he called a cbet otf with Qx. Other than that only Ax will call your bet

You might have bought yourself a cheap showdown, i wouldn't be too eager to celebrate tho. I assume you've been afraid of getting bluffed out with the ace used a scary card but for the river I can't work out any explanation.

Would You consider x/c OTT ? We won't get 3 streets of value anyway, Ax is rather a scare card and once we check, villain might to do something stupid with his SDV/ bluff hands. If he checks back, then it's quite simple b/f OTR. What do you think ?

A is a nice card to bet ourself.

Ace is a scare card to villain too. I don't see much point in check calling a scary card because villain MIGHT do something stupid. If we check turn and check river we might get bluffed easily.

Imo it is not ok to switch to passive mode every time board gets scary. It doesn't mean that villain hit that board and it is often scary for villain too. It often leads to that we don't bet because villain might beat us but we end up calling his every single bet because he might be bluffing and that gets expensive in the long run.

If we don't bet this turn our range is capped. I think we would bet this with Ax almost 100% of the time. Good villain will overbet here if we check and we have to fold always.

With xc we will not have a clue what to do on river.

I didn't mean that Ax is scary for us, I meant it's scary for villain, we hold a value hand so we don't want to make him fold but at the same time we know that now we don't have 3 streets of pure value. Betting the turn we never make better hand to fold and we make him fold some/most of his floats - not giving him chance to bluff, and often we make him fold some of the weaker pairs, 9x etc.

Once we check the turn, we might induce bluffs from hands that wouldn't called if we bet, his middle range/SDV will often just check back and we might get call from those hands if we bet the river lets say 1/2 pot. When we check the turn we look like Ax is scary for us thus villain holding Ax may sometimes decide to x back knowing that he wont get much value as we either give-up or hold something that now is a 2nd pair. I think that Ax is better card for 2nd barrel bluff rather than value bet with KK. The downside is that we might get bluffed OTT and OTR if the villain is aggressive and we have to fold. Bottom line, I'm not trying to say I'm right, this is just my point of view. Taking this line the only bad thing imo is that since we got no info about his aggression, we cannot assume that his bluffing once he bets the turn and the river and we have to fold.

Just in a pure vacuum, what would you do if we knew that villain has a FtCb flop - 40, FtCb turn - 60 ... ?

Just bet/bet x/f.

If villain likes to float you put him into tough spot. If villain is good he knows that turn A is good card for you to barrel he might call turn wider too(not too many nl10 player think like this, I think that they just play their cards and get scared of the A).

+ I don't see a reason why villain would turn his SD hands into a bluff if we x.

Originally posted by marsa08
Just bet/bet x/f.

If villain likes to float you put him into tough spot. If villain is good he knows that turn A is good card for you to barrel he might call turn wider too

I agree, if we knew he is a good reg or any decent player, then we know he will think that Ax is a great card for us to double barrel bluff thus we get called more often with weaker range.

But because villain is unknown and as You mentioned :

not too many nl10 player think like this, I think that they just play their cards and get scared of the A

... why bet then ?

Originally posted by marsa08
+ I don't see a reason why villain would turn his SD hands into a bluff if we x.

Yes, but he might feel more comfortable to call our river bet after we checked the turn rather than call our second barrel on that Ax + if he is calling us with floats hoping to bluff once we check the turn, we give him a chance to do so.

Ace is a scary card also for us and we wouldn't have 3 streets of value either way.
If we check I doubt villain will turn his showdown value to bluff and if he bluffs we cannot call it comfortably because he has many Ax in his range too.
If we check we are hoping he will check turn behind and then call our river bet. There is many ifs. By checking we let him improve his hand.
What if villain bets turn and then river, not good. What if he check turn and folds river, not good. What if he checks turn and raises river, not good.
By thinking that he might call our river bet more lightly when we check turn we are targeting a super small part of his range.

If we xc turn we do not where we stand and we cannot xc again the river.
I prefer betting the turn.

And I think we should be barreling on every overcard.

And if we check we tell villain the strength of our hand.

Originally posted by la55i
And if we check we tell villain the strength of our hand.

I think so. He can represent Ax on river and we are left guessing if he really has it...