Turn straight vs fish.

Blah. Stupid spot.

I think folding might be better here. Villain is super fish with almost 100 vpip and 0 pfr and with a low AF. So what does that turn donk and 3bet mean? It means that he has something awfully strong. Yes he can play some 7x and 9T like this but he can also play 79,77,99,TT,J8 like this.

We should push turn. He has 7x in his range.
After calling the turn 3b we cannot fold.

Yea that would actually be a lot better. Push OTT. There is no reason to call turn 3bet if we are not calling this river. I thought this wrong.

But now this got me thinking. We are making the decision to play for stacks OTT. Should we fold to his turn 3bet?

Villain is super passive. We don't hold the nut straight. We have a weak flush draw. Board is paired. Villain is a fish and could be doing this with another 68 or 7x or T9 but he definitely has a lot better hands too in his range.

Originally posted by la55i
Yea that would actually be a lot better. Push OTT. There is no reason to call turn 3bet if we are not calling this river. I thought this wrong.

The only possible of your choice is TT...

Originally posted by la55i
But now this got me thinking. We are making the decision to play for stacks OTT. Should we fold to his turn 3bet?

Villain is super passive. We don't hold the nut straight. We have a weak flush draw. Board is paired. Villain is a fish and could be doing this with another 68 or 7x or T9 but he definitely has a lot better hands too in his range.

In fact the decision is made on flop! If we do not feel comfortable - just check this flop.

i dont think i would even bet the flop vs 98/0...would just call ott

I'm never folding vs. this opponent with these stacks. Finely played. I'd probably just get it in after he b/3b. Yes, it's a strong line, but he's never folding 7x.

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by la55i
But now this got me thinking. We are making the decision to play for stacks OTT. Should we fold to his turn 3bet?

Villain is super passive. We don't hold the nut straight. We have a weak flush draw. Board is paired. Villain is a fish and could be doing this with another 68 or 7x or T9 but he definitely has a lot better hands too in his range.

In fact the decision is made on flop! If we do not feel comfortable - just check this flop.

I'm not 100% sure about that. We improve our hand a bit OTT and our level of comfort might be different. I'm not going broke OTF with OESD on a paired board but when I hit my straight and get a flush draw it is different. So the decision to play for stacks is made OTT. For me at least.

But you decide just to call or raise on flop.

Originally posted by nitrol
We should push turn. He has 7x in his range.
After calling the turn 3b we cannot fold.

Why is pushing turn better than call/call Line?

There is FE , you can improve , there are cards that can kill the action on river.

Originally posted by nitrol
There is FE , you can improve , there are cards that can kill the action on river.

Exactly for these reasons. We are going broke anyway and there are some cards we don't want to see.

While I was playing the hand I was thinking about shoving the turn, but then I thought that if he has some trash that he decided to play this way I'll let him bet the river too. He should not have too many trashy hands though because he is passive but who knows. Imo its close between calling and jamming, maybe it is better to jam as any heart otr might make him think about folding his 7x etc.

Where does the FE come from? What better hand is folding to a shove? I think that we don't have a lot of fold equity but we should shove for the reason that hearts might kill the action.

Originally posted by marsa08
Where does the FE come from? What better hand is folding to a shove? I think that we don't have a lot of fold equity but we should shove for the reason that hearts might kill the action.

Noone said we have a ton of FE. There is FE, that is all.

For me fold equity does not mean that we have to fold out only better hands. It is how much villain will fold of his range in general.
If we look at this definition: http://www.pokerstrategy.com/glossary/Fold-Equity/
I don't see it saying that villain has to fold better.

Here we are not only making his better hands to fold but those hands that still have good equity against our hand.