KK call shove on flop

120 is not that deep. TT, AA beat you and he can do this with JJ-QQ.

Super-easy fold

Why is it supereasy?

if it will be NL5-NL10 - it is an easy fold.
1) you play in increased stacks (effective 120bb)
2) it is quite dry flop
3) most of the time I will see push from bad regular only with kind of set, but he is not looking like a regular.
4) if it will be 3B pot I can suggest that CO could have JJ,QQ in his calling range.
5) who is our opponent? He is just 41/12 per 17 hands. Yes, sounds fishy, but should I call for most of my stack with over in not 3B pot? Sometimes fishy players could do the following with AA.
I think we need easy to calculate -
if opponent will shove with TT+,44-33,65s we have only (47,9)%
so, he offers the following chances = 112,43 / (112,43 + 7,5+4,98+112,43) * 0,97 = 0,488
So, it is about zero call ( a little negative call required 0,488, but our 0,479).

I think you can flip a coin and decide. Both call and fold seem ok to me. Villain looks like a fish and his move is fishy. Can be sets but can be weaker overpairs too. Dont bother your head with this.

hi guys,
if hero check raise on the flop,would that be better play in this situation?
also he is fishy and according to all info that you have i think call is ok
AA and T is very small part of his range

will any decent player push a set or 2 pair here?

Originally posted by nitrol
Why is it supereasy?

From a balanced perspective (without going through the math, which is actually relatively easy in this case):

• He should be bluffing plenty, more that one might expect.
• One should fold plenty, much more than one might expect, especially given the above bullet.

Thus without reads, it is a really easy fold.

I don't like check raising so much. We potentially miss value and give free card to villain and if he calls we isolate ourselves against strong range.

Originally posted by rompas
will any decent player push a set or 2 pair here?

On this dry board he will not x/push sets and 2p.
And if we add some bluffs...we can call.

Originally posted by YohanN7

Originally posted by nitrol
Why is it supereasy?

From a balanced perspective (without going through the math, which is actually relatively easy in this case):

• He should be bluffing plenty, more that one might expect.
• One should fold plenty, much more than one might expect, especially given the above bullet.

Thus without reads, it is a really easy fold.

I do not get this...

I don't want to spell out the math, it is slightly too much for a forum post, and I have done it several times. (It is also not entirely easy, and messing up if leisurely writing down logic and math is certainly possible, and embarrassing.) I'll just extract the essence. I hope we can agree that we hold a bluff catcher, and that we should use its strength to determine what to do.

• If he is balanced, it doesn't matter what you do this time. I suppose here that you beat his bluffs and lose to his value bets.
• If you call every time in this spot, you are highly exploitable.

If this doesn't make sense, put yourself in his shoes. Suppose you are bluffing. How often do you need to succeed to be break even on bluffs? Plenty!

The fundamental thing about balance (which is probably quite close to GTO in this case because it is all in) that is hard to understand is that you must let him succeed enough on his bluffs. If you don't, then you are exploitable. Another fundamental thing is that you cannot exploit him by calling (or folding) here if he is balanced. Yet one more thing: "Letting him" succeed enough (but no more) is by no means him exploiting you. It means, on the contrary, that you are balanced, and he cannot exploit you.

I had notes on this fish(sorry for misleading, should have tell it in the hand above). This is my previous hand with him. For me easy call with KK after this hand.
I`m not really sure we need to speak about math if fish in the hand.

Poker Stars, $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $100 (100 bb)
BB: $103.46 (103.5 bb)
Hero (UTG): $178.38 (178.4 bb)
MP: $133.26 (133.3 bb)
CO: $107.71 (107.7 bb)
BTN: $83.17 (83.2 bb)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T♣: T♦:
Hero raises to $3, 2 folds, BTN calls $3, 2 folds

Flop: ($7.50) 3♦: 6♥: 5♥: (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn: ($7.50) T♥: (2 players)
Hero bets $5.69, BTN raises to $80.17 and is all-in, Hero calls $74.48

River: ($167.84) 9♥: (2 players, 1 is all-in)

Results:

Originally posted by rompas
will any decent player push a set or 2 pair here?

Exactly. Not even an overpair.

Originally posted by xdimax
I had notes on this fish. This is my previous hand with him. For me easy call with KK after this hand.
I`m not really sure we need to speak about math if fish in the hand
...

Then why the hell do you post and ask?

wow... without reading all these comments (I think the hand isn't THAT hard to debate) I would also go for the fold. We simply don't know enough about the villain to draw any big conclusions. If a spot is "close" and we gotta risk our whole stack I rather wait for a better spot and stack the fish with a monster

That said: It will be a better investment to donate the $112 to some charity organization or give it a homeless person than to call this shove.

Originally posted by YohanN7

Originally posted by xdimax
I had notes on this fish. This is my previous hand with him. For me easy call with KK after this hand.
I`m not really sure we need to speak about math if fish in the hand
...

Then why the hell do you post and ask?

Well the hand sample size on this player was not that big at the moment i posted it. I was not really sure after his move vs TTT. But i played a few more hands vs him, his play didn't really changed. So after all i shouldn`t really post this hand. Sorry for misleading.

Originally posted by MisterSnS
wow... without reading all these comments (I think the hand isn't THAT hard to debate) I would also go for the fold. We simply don't know enough about the villain to draw any big conclusions. If a spot is "close" and we gotta risk our whole stack I rather wait for a better spot and stack the fish with a monster

That said: It will be a better investment to donate the $112 to some charity organization or give it a homeless person than to call this shove.

KK is not a monster on this kind of board vs a fish? Or you allways wait for quads to stack the fish? cheers

It got even worse...