[Closed] nl200 - turn 2nd pair OOP, bet?

If all you know about this guy is that he's 80/2 then I'd assume he plays very passive postflop. If this is the case, then it's an easy check/fold because you have showdown value now and he'll never bet the turn after you check without an ace.

Hm, really depends on the guy. Without any further information I tend to c/c turn and c/f unimproved on the river if he fires again.

Best regards,
TribunCaesar

Originally posted by TribunCaesar
Hm, really depends on the guy. Without any further information I tend to c/c turn and c/f unimproved on the river if he fires again.

Best regards,
TribunCaesar

I don't like it. Against what will you get value? I mean, by bet/folding, you can be pretty sure you're folding the worse hand on the turn. By c/c-ing, you won't be nearly as sure you'll be folding the worse hand on the river, which sux, doesn't cut your losses properly, and will often get you in 1:3 odds spots because villain will VB the river very thin. I REALLY don't see the point in c/c-ing with second pair. I do see the point in c/f-ing, if villain folds A LOT to cbets, but c/c is just meeeh.

Any feedback to my judgeattack?

IMO the turnbet is perfectly fine!
I think he is likely to call all pocketpairs 66-KK at the flop just like flushdraws and some gutshots (and since he has 80 vpip there definitely are some in his range).

All draws miss at the turn and by checking you give his draws a freecard while he might have called them again, versus the pocketpairs you still lose value - some of them might call again.

At first i expect every player to be passive postflop if he has 80 vpip and just 2 pfr.

So i'd bet the turn and reevaluate at the river.

edit: I was just about writing the feedback :).

The problem with beting turn and reevaluating river is:

- you will have a pretty big pot and don't know what to do by the river
- you can be easily beat

advantages of c/c turn

- you might get bluffs from random hands
- he can check behind and give you some information with this, you keep the pot smaller if he checks behind (main point)

Sure, b/f is a possible line and rather standard, nevertheless in this spot against this guy I like c/c turn and reevaluate river ( mostly c/f). He might easily give up by the river.

If the had reasonable stats i'd agree with you but since his stats indicate he is passive i don't expect him to bluff often, in fact i expect him to have at least one pair or a flushdraw - but with both of these hands he will try to get a cheap showdown, so he will be more inclined to check behind the turn.

And i do have a plan for the river:
Since he is passive i don't expect him to bluff there either, so i bet the turn and when i'm called i will check the river planning to fold unless he bets very small.
He will still check his weak made hands behind and he won't bluff that often with his busted draws.

And btw the argument i might be beat is almost of no improtance since i'm figuring out the best move against his range.
There are some Ax in it but the bigger part consists of random weak made hands or draws.

Furthermore if he bets, what do you expect his range to be?
Assuming he's passive he is likely to check all his flushdraws and medium hands back, so if anything a check on the turn should be a check/fold, there's no point in check/calling because he will have us beat the majority of the time (if not always).

In addition:
Whats your plan if you check the Turn and he checks back?
A river means you have to fold no matter what happens.
But what is your plan for non- rivers?
If you bet you will still get called of everything that beats you and the missed draws will just fold.
If he calls medium pairs there he might just have called them on the turn, too.

Well, if we had more information about this guy I would vote for a c/f if he is unlikely to bet anyway. If he is just a huge fish who calls anything I like betting as you suggest. But in this case we don't have those informations.

If your line is best gainst his range is questionable, because we don't know his range, so we have to assume one. Furthermore we have to assume his action with certain hands.

In my experience this guy will show us that we are ahead if he checks the turn. If he bets we might be ahead, we might be beat, we can't answer this. A c/f right on the turn is nothing wrong. Still I vot for c/c and see a river and his action. Many fishs will stop bluffing/thin valuebetting ( many will even check an A).

--> we get cheaper to the river, and get information.

In NL, there is never just 1 line. I am far from telling you, your line is bad. I am just convinced that mines works here as well.

I am folding on many rivers, so also on a river. Obv depends also on given odds.

cc turn, cf riveris imo only good if you know that player would never bluff river
I would just bet myself, since he would call with draw on the turn and likely not bet himmself river since you bet twice, if he has lower hand than Ax.
Problem by betting is that sometimes he could make some kind of move, but if you believe player would play his hand straigth forward bf line consider his whole hand range seems beter to me than cc.