JJ rivered set in 4b pot facing xr A45 3 J board

I like it as you played it. OTR I´m calling, as only hand which beats us and I see it in his range is 76s. But still it doesn´t make a sense, becase I think he would bet OTR himself. I believe he can also have AA. I also don´t think 76s is standard to be in 4bet range (not saying it´s bad, but most ppl dont do it imo). We look weaker than we are as well, because we get strong hand OTR. All at all his line seems very weird to me and I would call it.

I think villain should not have low suited connectors in his range. He might have A2 which makes a straight and he might have AA. Those are the only hands that beat us imo. When villain checks flop, bets turn small and then checks river again I think he doesn't rep anything strong. Maybe he is bluff raising river because he knows that we know he is not strong? Or maybe he has KK and because you didn't stab OTF or raise OTT he thinks it is good.

I think I would just shove there.

Behind 6 combos: A2s, AA. Ahead 7 combos: A3s, A4s, A5s. Possible to see something weirdly played like AK or KK. AJ is also possible, and that is 4 combos. I like calling the river.

He had

Maybe he is bluff raising river because he knows that we know he is not strong? Or maybe he has KK and because you didn't stab OTF or raise OTT he thinks it is good.

or maybe we are being too optimistic as default until we do not have signs that he is bluffraising big - maybe we should assume its the nuts even if we see 1 hand only.

Ahead 7 combos: A3s, A4s, A5s.

we are not sure if those are raising. They could call thinking that if he raises - he isolates vs better range.

I realized that villain shoved OTR so we can't shove on top
I would definitely call here. I wouldn't even give him all the A2s or AA because the way he played and I think it is more likely he has some badly played 2 pair or total air.

Wow.. so he bluff 4bets 22 ♦
I didn't expect that at all and I think he played it horribly. It is true that river raises are usually the nuts and you can just overfold vs those but in this case your hand is very very strong. Villain was unpredictable fish and sometimes it happens but if you called here because you put him on a range and thought you are ahead, I still think you made the correct move.

Without reading the messages I wanted to say I do not like the call OTT because not many cards could save us and still we would not draw to nuts so I'd fold there.

It is indeed an interesting move to 4bet with 22
I thought maybe he 4bet bluff you with A2. Make a note of this because low pp are not really cards to 4bet bluff at the micros. Maybe at higher levels but I personally wouldn't know

Cheers,

Hesticus

Originally posted by la55i
Wow.. so he bluff 4bets 22 ♦
I didn't expect that at all and I think he played it horribly. It is true that river raises are usually the nuts and you can just overfold vs those but in this case your hand is very very strong. Villain was unpredictable fish and sometimes it happens but if you called here because you put him on a range and thought you are ahead, I still think you made the correct move.

Sometimes being an unpredictable fish is better than being a predictable reg. Good ranges cover all boards. (100 bb deep you don't need to 4-bet bluff 22 or 76s every day, but doing it occasionally is good against people you play daily.) I think he played it wonderfully.

Hand reading: When the big bets come on turn and river, the preflop range is secondary information. You have more precise information, namely, he check-raises 87 bb. Figuring out what his preflop range is goes out the window. I'd also lose my stack here b t w. But I'd expect to do it once the raise comes.

Somebody please explain to me Hero's call on the turn??

Such a small turn bet into a big pot ...villain looking to be raised?

Originally posted by YohanN7

Originally posted by la55i
Wow.. so he bluff 4bets 22 ♦
I didn't expect that at all and I think he played it horribly. It is true that river raises are usually the nuts and you can just overfold vs those but in this case your hand is very very strong. Villain was unpredictable fish and sometimes it happens but if you called here because you put him on a range and thought you are ahead, I still think you made the correct move.

Sometimes being an unpredictable fish is better than being a predictable reg. Good ranges cover all boards. (100 bb deep you don't need to 4-bet bluff 22 or 76s every day, but doing it occasionally is good against people you play daily.) I think he played it wonderfully.

Hand reading: When the big bets come on turn and river, the preflop range is secondary information. You have more precise information, namely, he check-raises 87 bb. Figuring out what his preflop range is goes out the window. I'd also lose my stack here b t w. But I'd expect to do it once the raise comes.

hahahaha I genuinely always love your controversial messages

But I'd expect to do it once the raise comes.

you mean we are always dead when the raise comes?

Somebody please explain to me Hero's call on the turn??

Gives good odds. I hoped he will do sometimes it with air.

But I guess folding it would not be a mistake also, cause his bet sizing is telling it is not a bluff.

As msp3101 says he might be looking to be raised (and having the good hand).

Hmm not sure, maybe really the turn call sucks. If he was balanced with this betsizing, I guess it would not suck, but the problem is that really it might be just value range.

I filtered in various limits - NL2-NL20, mostly NL5 zoom, what they have when I face the river 2bet, not necesarilly 4b pot, but in general. I assume in 4bet pot there is similar tendency.

Have 27 such hands since 2015 08 01.

Saw that most often it is a value. And the bigger the pot, the more likely it is a value. Few times saw missed draws. If pot was over 84bb after call- there were no bluffs.

Originally posted by SPeedFANat1c

But I'd expect to do it once the raise comes.

you mean we are always dead when the raise comes?
...

No. But more often than not. We are pretty much capped, so we call and will mostly lose. Pot odds compensate, whether in full or not depends on opponent.

Originally posted by YohanN7

Originally posted by SPeedFANat1c

But I'd expect to do it once the raise comes.

you mean we are always dead when the raise comes?
...

No. But more often than not. We are pretty much capped, so we call and will mostly lose. Pot odds compensate, whether in full or not depends on opponent.

yea, its its more often its clear. Its breakeven if we get about 24 % or so.

One guy who plays NL200 suggests at these stakes to shove, they will call with Ax he says.

Might be true, cause its 4b, small over bet. But still think its close.
But as some said he can have 2 pairs - and those are more likely to call than AK. And imo 2 pairs are less likely to raise on rive themselves than to call an overbet.