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TPTK with short SPR vs min donkbet

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vlzvl
Joined: 17.03.2014

PokerStars 8500+1500 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - 25/50 Blinds - 7 players

MP: t815 16 BBs - (24) VP:46 PFR:10 AF:2.0 - 3B:16 AS:0 FS:0 - CB:100 FC:0 - WS:38 W$:40
MP+1: t95 2 BBs
HJ: t2110 42 BBs
Hero (CO): t735 15 BBs - (1.1k) VP:18 PFR:10 AF:2.1 - 3B:3 AS:27 FS:93 - CB:48 FC:100 - WS:27 W$:63
BTN: t1290 26 BBs
SB: t1000 20 BBs
BB: t2955 59 BBs

Preflop: (t75) Hero is CO with A♦:J♦:
MP calls t50, 2 folds, Hero raises to t200, 3 folds, MP calls t150

Flop: (t475) 4♦:6♥:J♥: (2 players)
MP bets t50, Hero ???

First time writing here :)
On the hand, i think i played the flop very wrong by just calling a min donkbet.
After reading about SPR concept i'm thinking i should had shoved here, right?
I have an SPR of ~1 here and zero maneuver space on the spot.
My villain is the typical 46/10 fish, so i put him into middle pair/weak J at best here.

My question is: What is the maximum SPR i should shove here as a rule of thumb? Is SPR ~1.5 a good number? I usually decide to shove TPTK based on number of blinds left, like 7 or 8 but i want to apply a default SPR strategy that takes pot ratio as well. Any other point about the hand?


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4 replies
Okkernootje
Joined: 02.09.2013

Is this a playmoney tournament?
I'm shoving pre for 15bb effective. As played we have to shove flop to get value from Jx and flushdraws.

I don't really like searching for a "rule of thumb". Its not always that simple or standard. I'd recommend just analyzing this situation and try to formulate some reasons for yourself. So if you shove, do you think he will call with worse? And how far (big) could you push your valueshove? It's all about how much chips you can get it in with (probably) the best hand. I have encountered situations where I shoved the river for 6x pot, just because I think villain will call me with worse. Don't think thats a rule you will find in a book or strategy section anywhere.

Shoving would get less interesting if the flop was J52 rainbow for instance.
Shoving would get less interesting if the flop was AA2 for instance.
Shoving would get less interesting if the flop was JJ6 for instance.

So sorry, no "rule of thumb". It's all about reading the flop, assigning a range for villain and trying to get as much value from that range/flop combination (or trying to get better hands to fold).


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Moderator
SDK1987
Joined: 12.11.2008

This is a play money tournament for sure and I would shove here as well with AJs with 1 limper in the hand. As played I would shove the remaining chips as well on his weak bet with only 535 chips remaining.

Cheers,
SDK1987


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vlzvl
Joined: 17.03.2014

Thanx for the replies.
Yes, this is a playmoney STT 10k buy-in regular, not a MTT or MTTSNG, sorry for not mentioning that. I don't play differently on either playmoney or realmoney, i like to play the hands here as i would play them in real money tourneys :)
So my first mistake was not shoving at the first place? I feel it's an awkward place to be 15bb to 13 bb and have to raise.
I shove 13bb and below using a chart but 15bb to 13bb :/
As i understand in the replies a limp helps really in my case for a shove :) It makes the pot about 20% of my stack.
Are you saying it's worst to raise here 4bb and putting myself into an SPR of 1 situation rather making it easier preflop? I need to understand this if this the reason because many times i like to raise, then ending with 10-11bb on flop having missed it...
Thanx for the flop samples @Okkernootje, but this situation confused me. I kinda started to think if it's better to milk some bets out of him since he's out of position.
I was not thinking of the flush draw and that K-Q cards would also hurt me or at least freeze the action.
I like the shove preflop and the flop, just trying to gather all points of interest here :) thank you


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Okkernootje
Joined: 02.09.2013

Are you saying it's worst to raise here 4bb and putting myself into an SPR of 1 situation rather making it easier preflop? I need to understand this if this the reason because many times i like to raise, then ending with 10-11bb on flop having missed it...

I was not thinking of the flush draw and that K-Q cards would also hurt me or at least freeze the action.

You are kinda giving the answer yourself.
By not shoving AJs pre you are risking having to give up your equity against his limp-call range when you don't hit the flop or when an overcard (not A off course) comes.


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